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Dec 21, 2010 2:30 PMPublication: The East Hampton Press

Two Charged In Water Mill Deer Poaching Incident

Dec 21, 2010 2:30 PM

The State Department of Environmental Conservation arrested two men in Water Mill in early October as part of what it said is a major initiative to crack down on deer poaching, one that also resulted in the arrests of more than 100 others across the state over a seven-week period, state officials revealed this week.

The two men, Jeffrey Klein, 35, of Copiague and Ivan Ramirez, 38, of Lindenhurst, were arrested after being caught “deer jacking” a decoy deer set up by DEC officers. Deer jacking is the process of shining a spotlight on a deer to stop it in its tracks long enough to kill it. The deer jacking occurred on October 2 at about 6 p.m. on Schwenks Road, a residential area off Edge of Woods Road, during the open weekend of archery hunting season, according to Bill Fonda, a DEC spokesman.

Mr. Klein was charged with discharging a bow within 500 feet of a dwelling, a misdemeanor, and shooting from a public highway, according to DEC officials. He and Mr. Klein were both charged with hunting big game during closed hours, hunting deer with the aid of artificial light within 500 feet of a dwelling, and use of a light in a motor vehicle while in possession of a long bow, all violations, according to DEC officials.

Mr. Fonda said in an e-mail that Mr. Ramirez’s next court date is January 19, but a clerk at the Southampton Town Justice Court said he was released on December 1 after paying a $500 fine.

The arrests were part of a seven-week operation of honing in on deer jacking. DEC officers charged 137 individuals, totaling two felonies and more than 250 misdemeanors and violations.

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DEC stooping to a new low. How about managing the out of control herds instead? Honestly, this agency needs to readress its mission & stop making cheap profits from low hanging fruit.
By East End 2 (151), Southampton on Dec 17, 10 7:09 PM
You don't think there is a safety issue when people are shooting deadly weapons from their cars on the side of the road within 500' of a residence? Really?
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Dec 19, 10 8:24 PM
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Dec 29, 10 12:25 AM
Oh, and send the boys over to my house. You can shoot from zero for all I care. Restore ecological balance I say.
By East End 2 (151), Southampton on Dec 17, 10 7:10 PM
1 member liked this comment
"Stupid is, as stupid does."

~Forrest Gump
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Dec 17, 10 7:21 PM
They could of come to my home too...Love to get rid of these pests...Thin out the deer population I say. They are a true hazard in our yards and especially on the roads. Surprised that the insurance industry has not used that as pretext to jack our rates.
We could organize something similar to the Polar Bear Swim for fund raising purposes. Call it the Bamby Massacre or Venison Kill each year. Hunters and residents would pay to participate. That money would be contributed to a fund supporting ...more
By V.Tomanoku (790), southampton on Dec 17, 10 11:51 PM
Q: Where did they traditionally forage for food?
A: Your yard, before it was developed.

Q: Where did they used to stomp out trails with their hooves?
A: Your property, before it was developed.

It's not a deer problem of overpopulation on this island, it's a people problem.
Dec 18, 10 9:51 AM appended by Mr. Z
Have you ever considered the "nuisance" we are to them?
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Dec 18, 10 9:51 AM
They no longer forage, now they paruese the grdens of unwitting humans and eat only the lushest and best tasting plants and flowers to be found.
My question is if I can get close enough to chop it's head off with a sword, CAN I, CAN I, PLEASE!!!!
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Dec 29, 10 12:28 AM
East End after they finish at your place send them all to my house they could hunt here for a week....
By DJ9222 (85), southampton on Dec 17, 10 11:52 PM
they should not shoot from car unless no humans around but never can be sure. come to my property if you want to hunt deer forget neighbors who are deer lovers being kept hostage by five deer outside door afraid of being trampled by them so must stay indoors.Can set clock with them ever sunday morn at 8 am now everyday all day and night too.Come and take them away please free of charge
By fyi (17), westhampton on Dec 19, 10 8:34 PM
Is this really what the DEC is doing ? What a waste of State funds ! I thought New York State was on the brink of bankruptcy ? What a joke !
By Bill in Riverhead (190), Riverhead on Dec 18, 10 6:12 AM
1 member liked this comment
Where to begin... How is this a "waste of funds" when they are generating fines from every violation they issue?

How dare the DEC regulate something like hunting, which could never result in injury or death of innocent people

These idiots were firing their weapons FROM a vehicle on a road. You really don't have a problem with that? If your kids were walking home from a friends house on a dark road at night, it wouldn't bother you that someone was shooting a bow + arrow from their ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Dec 19, 10 8:20 PM
Punks. If there are so many deer and they are so easy to kill, then why do these two idiots have to resort to this redneck hunting technique? Because they are......!
By private (27), sag harbor on Dec 18, 10 8:42 AM
4 members liked this comment
Redneck hunting technique? Kinda funny, they don't use that technique down South so you may want to try and use another term. What term would you use for the narrow minded term you used?
By LeeD (1), East Hampton on Dec 18, 10 5:22 PM
3 members liked this comment
Remind me, what does a West Virginia coal miner have to do, with hunting deer on Long Island?

I forget...
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Dec 19, 10 12:36 AM
Klein and Ramirez not your typical red neck names...What does a West Virginia coal miner have to do with a red neck? Red neck are usually refers to farmers who work outdoors and got sunburns on the back of their neck.
By V.Tomanoku (790), southampton on Dec 19, 10 9:47 AM
2 members liked this comment
The origin of the term "Redneck", came from the coal mines of West Virginia, over one hundred years ago.

They used to wear red kerchiefs in the mines, as a sign of solidarity while fighting to form a union.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Dec 20, 10 8:17 PM
to Mr. Z:

According to Wikipedia, the term was adopted by union miners in the early twentieth century but it predates that as a term describing a poor white farmer whose neck is burnt red by spending all day under the sun in the fields.
By highhatsize (4217), East Quogue on Dec 23, 10 11:06 AM
OK, I'll have to grant you that.

" [coal miners] appropriated both the term redneck and its literal manifestation"
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Dec 24, 10 6:58 PM
Someone get Redneck registration in Kentucky on the line pronto, being that it's a private club I don't know that they allow Jews and Hspanics in their organization, unless I'm off the mark and Klien isn't Jewish and Ramirez isn't Hspanic.... lol
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Dec 29, 10 12:24 AM
I don't think anyone really wants these idiots snooping around outside near their home at night with loaded weapons. All the DEC is doing is making sure people are hunting legally and safely ,that's all.
By fish head (9), Southampton on Dec 18, 10 12:16 PM
I'm glad they got these fools. Some jerks shot deer near me a few summers ago and missed killing cleanly. Two staggered onto the back of our property and died. We found their rotting carcasses when the stench became so great we had to close our windows. Yes, the herds need thinning, but not by beanbrains.
By goldenrod (505), southampton on Dec 18, 10 2:14 PM
4 members liked this comment
Looks like DEC didn't have enough layoffs!
By Walt (292), Southampton on Dec 19, 10 10:08 AM
As counterpoint, deer are herbivores, harmless by intent to other species. We are predators who eat, use or kill every species including our own that gets in our way or just for fun.

Instead of encouraging the meanest among us to kill these innocent creatures, we should use only humane and compassionate methods of control, like sterilization.

I know that this flies in the face of our primal instinct to kill but, since our brains have developed into organs that can conceive of ...more
By highhatsize (4217), East Quogue on Dec 19, 10 10:19 AM
1 member liked this comment
So you're a vegan I assume? Nothing wrong with killing animals for food - so long as it's done right by people who know what they're doing.

And how does hunter = meanest among us? If you hunt (or fish, which is the exact same thing from an ethical standpoint) you're "mean"?
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Dec 19, 10 8:22 PM
to Nature:

I used "mean" in the sense of "selfish" and "unfeeling", the most distinguishing characteristic of a predator.

As for, "[n]othing wrong with killing animals for food. . .", that's our species' predatory perspective. As long as it's not US, we can kill and eat it. Uber-predators replace the "US" with "ME".

Since we have been killing (and occasionally eating) each other throughout recorded history and the archeological record in repetitive, immutable violence, ...more
By highhatsize (4217), East Quogue on Dec 20, 10 10:37 AM
You didn't answer if you are a vegan or not, which I think is quite relevant.

Are you ready to ban fishing as well? There is *no* difference in shooting an animal with a gun and hooking an animal with a lure. At least with hunting there is a chance the animal can try and attack you - not the case with fishing.

If you think humans are selfish for hunting, then what word do you use for those who run slaughterhouses? Humans eat meat and plants. It doesn't make us savages.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Dec 20, 10 1:26 PM
Sorry, I am a vegetarian but not a vegan. I eat dairy products and eggs.

Naturally, I think we should neither hunt nor fish for the same reason, both deer and fish are sentient. I value the lives of deer higher than fish because deer and I are in the same taxonomic class and I can understand their cognition better.

What would lead you to conclude that we are NOT savages, given that we kill other animals for food and fun? In the former case, we "forget" the slaughterhouse horror ...more
By highhatsize (4217), East Quogue on Dec 20, 10 2:17 PM
That's good, Vegans are so flipping annoying I just want to mash their faces into ground beef!
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Dec 29, 10 12:31 AM
There are a lot of people out there that jack deer. I was walking along a heavily wooded road one day and a guy driving a 4 door sedan comes to a screetching stop and jumps out of the car, grabs his compound bow out of the trunk and runs down a side road. a few minutes later he comes back drives the car around the corner and loads the deer he just jacked into the trunk and drives off rapidly. I watched the whole thing he was so into it he never saw me. got pics too. and yes, i dropped the dime ...more
By Bilge Water (131), Southampton on Dec 19, 10 12:29 PM
A couple of years ago in Swan Lake, NY, a 16 MONTH old girl was killed by a deer hunter while INSIDE her home. THIS is why there are laws. Every year there are hundreds of deaths (of humans) associated with stupid hunters. Many thanks to the DEC for finally looking into this problem.
By Ms. Jane Q. Public (147), Southampton on Dec 20, 10 8:50 AM
2 members liked this comment
Yes, there is good reason why rifles, (i.e., .22's) are not permitted on Long Island.

They can travel much further than the intended target, on occasion, with dire consequences.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Dec 20, 10 8:21 PM
to Mr. Z:

Is that a fact? Hunters are not permitted to use rifles (or shotguns?) on Long Island? Is that the law?
Dec 21, 10 8:30 PM appended by highhatsize
On second thought, it can't be true of shotguns since that's the weapon of choice of the duck killers. But what about long guns with rifled barrels?
By highhatsize (4217), East Quogue on Dec 20, 10 8:30 PM
No rifles.

Shotguns are OK.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Dec 24, 10 6:59 PM
In case anyone should chance upon this thread, I have found the answer to my own question. It is only permissible in Suffolk County to take deer with a bow and arrow. I always wondered why so many hunters seemed to prefer that method. It also tells me why the fellow carrying a bag with squirming shapes in it (squirrels? rabbits? kittens?), carrying a rifle along the unpaved portion of Spinney Road, looked at me so cautiously. Wish I had known it then.
By highhatsize (4217), East Quogue on Dec 22, 10 9:12 AM
We have personally come upon 2 deer dead in the woods from arrows..shot but not accurately enough..ran miles before it bled to death..If you are going to hunt, Do it right..learn how to shoot..and kill the animal at least. And while you are at it, be a Man and track it and hunt it rather than bribe it in with food and then blind them with your lights and shoot from your heated truck...Where is the "sport" in that..same for you waterfowl hunters...And man , I hope yu all eat it at least.
By gansetteer (125), East Hampton on Dec 23, 10 10:33 AM
Copiague and Lindenhurst, deer jacking in Water Mill. Nice. Just the kind of people we want around our kids.
By ride the truth wave (125), southampton on Dec 26, 10 12:55 AM
The deer were here before you and your house were. Its not their fault we have destroyed their food source and now they are hungry. Your solution is brutally kill them all? You should be ashamed of yourselves. Find a merciful solution to the deer population. These animals didn't ask you to build your 5000 square foot house on their 1/2 acre.
By Hillsnbells (43), Southampton on Dec 26, 10 4:59 PM
1 member liked this comment
They were here, then we eliminated them. Then we re-introduced them FOR HUNTING PURPOSES. Since then they have gotten out of control and need to be hunted more often or vigorously. Most people who live out here don't have a 5000 SFT house on a 1/2 an acre. I don't know if anyone actually has that!
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Dec 29, 10 12:08 AM
There was a time when I had wild blueberries all over the place in the woods around the house.

Now, there are none, because these "animals", and we call them that, as if we aren't, ate them all to the point they didn't sprout back. I just let them have the peaches in the front yard, and nibble at the low parts of my yews.

The blueberries disappearing should tell you something...
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Dec 26, 10 7:07 PM
1 member liked this comment
Save the wild bluberries.... Kill the vermin!
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Dec 29, 10 12:29 AM
There is a season for the use of bow and arrow as well as shotgun for deer in Suffolk County. For shotgun a slug is used to kill deer vs pellets as would be used for upland or waterfowl hunting.

I personally do not condone jacking deer as we have too many children on our property and we hunt our own property legally. We have had poachers so brazen as to come up our drive and drive into our fields which are posted and shoot with both methods at deer. I have no problems with anyone wanting ...more
By weaving (1), Southampton on Dec 27, 10 6:24 PM
1 member liked this comment
On further investigation:

"Manner of Taking: Shotgun, using a single ball or slug, or a muzzleloading rifle, shooting a single projectile, having a minimum bore of 0.44 inches. Shotgun barrels may be rifled, and telescopic sights may be used."

- http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/40409.html

That's for the "Special Firearms Deer Season in parts of Suffolk County" which is open in January. Joggers be advised.
By highhatsize (4217), East Quogue on Dec 27, 10 8:45 PM
well you finally got it right highhat- have u ever considered doing the research BEFORE you rant for a week? no i guess not- sticking to facts taked all the fun out of it
By CaptainSig (716), Dutch Harbor on Dec 27, 10 9:31 PM
The "rant" was about killing harmless deer and what it makes us. The method of killing is incidental.

However, if you knew the facts all along, you could have posted them and saved yourself the angst of reading my ruminations.
By highhatsize (4217), East Quogue on Dec 28, 10 9:57 AM
Now back to reality for all, someone come with the hard numbers on deaths/injuries to non-hunters by hunters on LI. You're going to have a hartd time, because it just doesn't happen. Not even an errant jogger or mountain biker picked off by accident? NO!
I'm not condoning what these two Bozos were doing, but I don't condone the fear mongering, the kids are in danger baloney either. They were wrong, but let's not act like if they hadn't been stopped someone's child would be dead. It is possible ...more
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Dec 29, 10 12:20 AM
If you need hard numbers, ICE, I suggest you visit www.all-creatures.org/cash/accident-center.html. And those are only the ones that get reported.
By Ms. Jane Q. Public (147), Southampton on Dec 29, 10 9:01 AM
I've hit two of these dirty annoying animals on the roads out here. The thought of stopping and shooting then before they get to the road does have it's appeal!
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Dec 29, 10 12:34 AM
A couple of UTI (up the Island) tools got caught jacking deer by the DEC. Score 1 for the good guys.
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Dec 29, 10 9:02 AM