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Jan 12, 2011 9:47 AMPublication: The Southampton Press

Scaled-down 'Tuckahoe Main Street' Still Finds Opponents

Jan 12, 2011 9:47 AM

The proposed development previously known as “Tuckahoe Main Street” has been scaled down from its original incarnation, but several residents of the Tuckahoe School District say they still find it unpalatable, citing traffic concerns near Tuckahoe School, among other objections.

Robert Morrow, the developer behind the project, presented his most recent plans at a meeting of the Tuckahoe School Board on Monday. The new blueprints, which have already been unveiled to members of the Southampton Town Board and the Tuckahoe Citizens Advisory Committee, call for 15,000 square feet of retail stores adjacent to its centerpiece, a 40,000-square-foot King Kullen; previously, the plan had included 75,000 square feet of additional retail. A 3,500-square-foot building would house a bank. A dozen apartments pitched in the original plan have been scrapped, but the new design incorporates property now occupied by a motel adjacent to the 12 acres he has already purchased.

The latest plans also abandon the request for a planned development district to bypass the site’s current zoning restrictions, opting instead for a change-of-zone request from highway business to shopping center business.

Mr. Morrow told the School Board and residents in attendance that the development—which has not been given a new name yet—would boost the amount of tax revenue for the school district from the property, from a current total of about $40,000 to approximately $200,000 annually. He acknowledged that specific statistics from traffic engineers will become available later and will be presented to the Town Board. The supermarket would be a convenient draw for area residents, he also said. But residents at the meeting who spoke out largely voiced opposition.

David D’Agostino, a Tuckahoe School parent, said the development would make already-bad traffic “horrendous,” and he questioned the need for a supermarket. “You’ve taken off the stench of the PDD,” he said, “but the monster, the grocery store, remains.”

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I was driving by the school the other day as it were around the time school lets out. I noticed that there were many parents on both sides of the street parked. I presume they were waiting for school to let out and pick up their children. Irrespective of were the project goes or not, would it not seem more logical the have school let out on the Sebonac Rd. side? How much traffic is there now on Sebonac that the Sandy Hollow Re. entrance is blocked. By virtue of this, I believe there is more traffic ...more
By V.Tomanoku (790), southampton on Jan 17, 11 2:25 PM
1 member liked this comment
Why should a public school make accommodation to a private development?
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Jan 17, 11 9:49 PM
So, they should stop using the front door of the school?
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Jan 17, 11 9:56 PM
Gee 51 I don't know? Why should public funds be used for private health care subsidies
By joe hampton (3461), south hampton on Jan 17, 11 10:35 PM
What a childish and pointless comparison from j Hampton
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Jan 17, 11 10:44 PM
Excellent idea!
By Tuckahoe Ted (53), southampton on Jan 17, 11 5:39 PM
At this meeting Mr Morrow said he estimates 1800 checkouts per hour while at the same time claiming his change of zone development would actually lesson traffic? Anyone who believes that Magee street and 39 can handle that kind if traffic increase in the middle of summer is not paying attention. And don't forget the endless line of delivery trucks that will be rolling through each and every day.

There is a reason this proposed area is zoned highway business, which a grocery store us not. ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Jan 17, 11 9:56 PM
Somehow I think 1800 checkouts per hour is a lofty wish rather than a realistic figure. Say it was 1200: that's 200 an hour for 6 cashiers or 100 an hour for 12 cashiers, these are numbers not even the fastest express line could handle. At 2 minutes a checkout we're talking 30 an hour per clerk.

Is that an accurate quote Mr. D’Agostino because it seems logistically impossible.

Delivery trucks don't come to super markets during the day, you will strengthen your arguments ...more
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Jan 18, 11 9:54 PM
You have the advantage of being able to address me directly whereas I must rebut an anonymous avatar, but so be it. I am more than willing to stand behind my postings.

Did you attend the Mr. Morrow's presentation at Tuckahoe? I did. I addressed him directly and the 1,800 checkouts per hour number came directly from him so if it is inaccurate it is his inaccuracy, not mine.

Mr. Morrow also admitted that none of the current allowable uses would generate as much traffic as a grocery ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Jan 19, 11 8:54 AM
I don't know if being able to address you directly is necessarily an advantage, but it is unimportant really.

I did not attend the presentation by Mr. Morrow and if I had I wouldn't have needed you to clarify if it was an accurate quote, thus the question I imagine was somewhat rhetorical. You seem to be an intelligent man and if you crunch the 1800 checkout per hour number I'm sure you can see it is way off. I was just surprised Mr. Morrow would err on the high side for the checkouts considering ...more
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Jan 20, 11 4:59 AM
I wonder if Tuckahoe Main Street would plow parking spaces for shoppers when it snows, something Southampton Village doesn't think we deserve. And anyone who says that Waldlbaum's is an ok place to shop deserves to shop there. King Kullen or any other store you can name would be better!
By SusieD (115), Southampton on Jan 17, 11 10:12 PM
1 member liked this comment
You are right about Waldbaums. Morrow should buy that property and build a new supermarket. I so enjoyed the meat at IGA.
By coyote (14), southampton on Jan 18, 11 6:40 AM
Someone would complain, it seems what people out here do best these days!
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Jan 18, 11 9:56 PM
Why has the Press not done a story on the Hampton Bays Corridor Strategic Plan and
Hampton Bays Draft Generic Environmental Impact Statement - Final Draft
WOW if they really do this to Hampton Bays it will finally be a true Hampton. Absolutely amazing you can read about it here
Wonder why the press is keeping a lid on the story its a huge change
By 27dan (2854), Southampton on Jan 17, 11 10:33 PM
1 member liked this comment
Would be nice if they got the word out in time for people to review it prior to the public meeting on Feb 1st.!!! Thanks for the head's up 27dan.
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Jan 18, 11 9:59 PM
And in some ways it has the potential to be one of the top 4 Hampton's if they could pull it off, but I have my doubts the NIMBY crew will be hard at work to keep that place stale and overran with illegal dirt bags and bar patrons from Mastic. But I will admit Dan it was quite a read.
By joe hampton (3461), south hampton on Jan 17, 11 10:39 PM
You have to love it, lets just "abandon the sites current zoning restrictions, and opt instead for a change of zoning". Lets just change the zonning everywhere, hey how bout putting a casino there!
By coyote (14), southampton on Jan 18, 11 6:33 AM
Zoning isn't written in stone, therefore periodic review of needs/uses is healthy. The casino should go on the Westwoods property in Hampton Bays.
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Jan 18, 11 10:02 PM
The traffic study needs to be performed by a third party engineer, not the developers. Second the study needs to be performed during the summer when we are at max capacity to see if the roadways can handle more. Doing a traffic study in th eoff season is really useless as well as by the developers firm. With the vacancies around I do not see the need for the additional retail around the supermarket.
By North Sea Citizen (568), North Sea on Jan 18, 11 7:07 AM
1 member liked this comment
Good point about the vacancies and there not being the need for additional retail. The supermarket is needed! And we always need another bank.... not!
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Jan 18, 11 10:03 PM
The amount of additional tax dollars that Mr. Morrow claims will come to the school is a number that has changed significantly over time. Just last month it was $180,00 and now it has been rounded up to $200,000.00

Firstly, not all of that money goes to the school district, a large percentage, yes, but not all. Additionally, if Mr. Morrow decided to build within the current zoning regulations, the amount of tax revenue coming to the school would double at the very least. Lastly, our ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Jan 18, 11 12:08 PM
So the Tuckahoe taxpayers should be dancing on the head of a pin. Their taxes would be lower their properties worth more plus they would have convenient shopping alternatives close to home. At currently rising gasoline prices that would be win-win. Not to forget about the original question: why not shift school pick up to Sebonac?
By V.Tomanoku (790), southampton on Jan 18, 11 3:02 PM
im not dancing on anything: >no such thing as "lower taxes" hahaha, goood one. >the increased congestion is going to be suffocating & will actaully raise taxes!! (extra fire & police, roadwork etc) > challenge "convenience" since town is 4 miles in 1 direction and h bays is 5 miles in the other, thats pretty convenient already. and supposed "convenience" is for very few people therfore negating your 'saved gas' theory .. not to mention that just starting the engine uses the moset gas so the ...more
By david h (405), southampton on Jan 19, 11 7:45 AM
How does having the grocery store lower taxes? Why should school children be asked to accommodate a grocery store?
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Jan 19, 11 8:56 AM
If your asking me that is what you said. The Mall will bring in double the revenues to the district that already has a surplus and returned excess to the taxpayers.
I believe the "accommodation" would be to the childrens' benefit and allay their parents fears. If you drive by the school at the time that school is letting out, you will notice all the cars parked on both sides of N. Magee. That is a dangerous situation as you don't know when someone will weave in and out between parked cars. ...more
By V.Tomanoku (790), southampton on Jan 19, 11 11:35 AM
Read the comment above mine that I was replying to with respect to the lower taxes. If it's accurate, which I presume it is, then school taxes would be lowered.
The additional congestion that would be had at that location could be managed better if there was a circle instead of a light at that corner. Dare I say look at rt. 58 in Riverhead. Traffic flows well there. Here I believe its going to be better for traffic on 39, N. Magee Street traffic, northern village traffic going to the stores ...more
By V.Tomanoku (790), southampton on Jan 19, 11 12:06 PM
your killin us

put a traffic circle on cr39 to accommodate a mall

too too funny - actaully, not funny - rather very scary.

nothing you say makes sense!! literaly WTF !!

MY taxes went UP AGAIN for the fifth year in a row - i didnt get any tax refund, WTF is daviddag talking about??

ask any store owner in the village if they want to relieve congestion there?? wher do you presume vacancies come from?!

how would you freaking build a traffic ...more
By david h (405), southampton on Jan 19, 11 12:21 PM
I'm sure trying to come up for solutions to your concerns. Trying to make this work better for you, David. I don't live in Riverhead. But I don't care to have to travel to Riverhead when shopping could be more convenient to me here. David there is nothing that I can say that is going to change how you feel about this project. Its in front of your house. I would tend to believe that this thing is going to get done. Try to get out of it what you can before you regret not having insisted on one ...more
By V.Tomanoku (790), southampton on Jan 19, 11 12:56 PM
How could I forget to mention this to you David, I live off of the second busiest road heading East in the town. I take a certain amount of risk when I get on that road because I've got speeding traffic in both directions. I wish I could get that situation fixed to what it used to be.
By V.Tomanoku (790), southampton on Jan 19, 11 1:15 PM
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so an additional $200K in tax revenue supposedly ... will have to hire a new police officer at $125K, a few extra fireman & emt just to keep all sorts of maintenance, road work, road rage and so on and so on .... doesnt sound like a good deal for anyone but the developer. and maybe the convenience tofor those to walk over from the new 78 condo complex coming in.
painful. this "hamptons" thing has jumped the proverbial shark. it will be painful also to watch th limited coverage from 27east ...more
By david h (405), southampton on Jan 18, 11 12:16 PM
its all going down at Magee St !! the crips battling the non-citiznery, drug wars, shootings, illegal car reggisted in North Carolina, real estate that wont sell, hookers & pimps, elementary school expansion, shady real estate dealings, developers husttling arouns, tuckahoe mall, 78 unit condos projects, Eruv battles , speeding traps & dwi checks ...
By david h (405), southampton on Jan 18, 11 1:00 PM
I agree with north sea citizien. do traffic study in the summer. When families are also biking together.
By docben (5), bellmore on Jan 18, 11 1:28 PM
Biking where on CR39? LOL
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Jan 18, 11 10:04 PM
I mean really now, not even the Kamikaze road bikers ride on CR39 let alone families! The occasional illegal alien is all I've ever seen on a bike on CR39.
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Jan 18, 11 10:08 PM
no, Ice, biking on Sebonac Road, & Magee St where the elementary school is; Moses & Bishops Lane and Old Montauk Hwy ... plenty of bicycles always. all the backroads - which are gonna be toast in no time. 78 condos coming right beind this du mbass mall project by someone who wont even hav to deal with the crappy situation they will create.
not to mention early spring for the full day of cyclists crossing Long Island.
By david h (405), southampton on Jan 18, 11 10:42 PM
Okay, I see! Having been hit by a car while riding a bike in the past, I fully understand the danger posed by increased traffic on the side roads, especially with the increase in texting/emailing and whatever else these morons I see looking down while driving are doing!
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Jan 18, 11 11:00 PM
Actually, CR39 is safer than many of the small roads out here because of the wide shoulders. Occasionally I like to ride my bike on CR 39 too.
By V.Tomanoku (790), southampton on Jan 19, 11 12:11 PM
I agree. There should be more bike lanes on the side roads in town.
By V.Tomanoku (790), southampton on Jan 19, 11 12:13 PM
V. Tomanoku, would you allow your 9 year-old child to ride a bike on CR39?
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Jan 19, 11 1:48 PM
thankyou David H. When I said biking. I meant exactly what you put down. The BACKROADS Sebonac, Magee and Moses Lane. 78 condo's = 300 bicycles. I keep mentioning bicycles because southampton turns into bikehampton in the summer.. New houses on N Bishop Lane. New condo's on tuckahoe lane coming.
By docben (5), bellmore on Jan 19, 11 11:27 PM
The thing that seems to be escaping many is that the traffic going in and out of the new shopping center is not spontaneously being created out of thin air like our currency. The people who will shop there are here already. The school is closed during the summer when the most unbearable traffic is clogging CR39.
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Jan 18, 11 9:51 PM
1 member liked this comment
Does anyone really believe that, as bad as traffic is currently on 39 that a grocery store with 1,800 checkouts per hour (that number came directly from Morrow) means no additional traffic at the site of the proposed development? Come on, if we are going to have a debate, let's at least begin in the realm of reality.

Roads that currently have little to no traffic (Magee) will be overwhelmed by traffic trying to get in and out. Can you imagine the line of cars heading west on 39 waiting ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Jan 19, 11 8:43 AM
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TRUE TRUE TRUE!!!! EXACTLY> THANK YOU dag david !!! that light crossing 39 lasts forever already and changes back very quickly!! it will crush east/west flow on 39 for miles & Magee north & south will be choked INSTANTLY!

27east should print dagdavid's op ed
By david h (405), southampton on Jan 19, 11 8:52 AM
1 member liked this comment
Think about rt. 58 in Riverhead. A traffic circle might be a better way to relieve the concerns with respect to traffic.

Your other concerns are valid. The issue of pedestrian walkways has to be studied. Putting lights at a certain distance back from main traffic with button so that when people want to cross there is an option for crossing. A subterranean walkway under the traffic circle.

I think in the future there will be a need for other locations for stores on the Eastern ...more
By V.Tomanoku (790), southampton on Jan 19, 11 12:40 PM
In all fairness you must know the 1800 checkouts per hour number was a mistake. It is not possible, even if you used 'Fuzzy Math" it still just doesn't equate. If you think it does please provide a breakdown of how it could be possible outside the Twilight Zone.

I give you a little info I received from a Harvard educated Neurologist who had attended a symposium on the LI traffic problem at Harvard long after he graduated and he said the conclusion was it would not be possible to alleviate ...more
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Jan 20, 11 5:14 AM
ok i guess i FINALLY got what everyone else must already know . ..

V do you/did you work at north sea plumbing?? do i see you riding around EVERYWHERE on you bike w/the neon protective vest ??

if this is you i give you MAXIMUM RESPECT!!!!!

otherwise, perty koookie stuff
By david h (405), southampton on Jan 19, 11 2:06 PM
Nope wrong guy David. Why koookie? Any more koookie than you? doubt it...
By V.Tomanoku (790), southampton on Jan 19, 11 2:58 PM

To the Community: Know what this is all about!

This Tuckahoe Mall is part and parcel of the well worn classic Developer Greed model which is only concerned about the almighty buck, and the hell with the impact on the quality of life of the surrounding community.

Thus, Morrow buys property cheap because it is properly zoned highway only, for citizen safety reasons, that could accomodate only a small footprint 15,000 square foot maximum business. He is well aware that past ...more
By Obbservant (449), southampton on Jan 19, 11 2:26 PM
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I'm glad that there is somebody that agrees this thing is going in even though we disagree on its merit.
By V.Tomanoku (790), southampton on Jan 19, 11 3:12 PM

Mr. Tomanaku: You totally misinterpret what I said. This project with the 40,000 sq ft IS UNQUESTIONABLY AGAINST THE CITIZEN'S INTERESTS AND WILL BE DEFEATED! This 40K sq ft monstrosity is not going in and I assure you an enraged citizenry will campaign furiously against any and ALL TOWN BOARD MEMBERS WHO VOTE WITH MORROW LIKE THIS IS THE ALAMO, in this election year!

Town Board members and Town Supervisors frequently win by a few hundred votes and the Tuckahoe/Shinnecock Hills, a ...more
By Obbservant (449), southampton on Jan 19, 11 3:53 PM
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I'm sorry. I had interpreted what you said before as essentially that the fix was in and the project was bought and paid for the only thing under negotiation was the scale of the project.

You know like the joke about the millionairess and the handsome man. She asks him if he would sleep with her for a million dollars... He says he would for a million. When she asks him if he would do it for 20.00, and he says "of course not, what kind of guy do you think i am" she replies "we've already ...more
By V.Tomanoku (790), southampton on Jan 19, 11 4:23 PM

V TOM: Southampton is deep down, really a developers' town with many if not most politicians acting on their behalf, recepient of thousands and thousands of dollars of political contributions; witness the ease they obtain many zoning change approvals that don't attract community attention, how low many mansions and Mcmansions' tax assessments are, oftentimes scandalously low compared to their market values and how regular houses are valued scandalously high that many of us have no choice but ...more
By Obbservant (449), southampton on Jan 19, 11 7:57 PM
Very well said. I agree with what you say. I'm skeptical about the last paragraph. I wish it were true but I have not seen it being effective here. The vote is fractionated.
By V.Tomanoku (790), southampton on Jan 19, 11 8:33 PM
If this proposal goes through, it is time to move IMO.
By PBR (4956), Southampton on Jan 19, 11 5:00 PM
HAHA, it's been time to move the market just isn't right for selling! Unless of course you go by what the assessor's office is doing when it comes to home valuation!
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Jan 20, 11 5:17 AM
Don't believe the school tax revenue increase, it's a complete fabrication. Morrow would have you believe that your property taxes will be slashed if he's allowed to build his cash cow. In reality, commercial properties are both undervalued and undertaxed, and any increase in revenue to the school district will be marginal at best.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Jan 19, 11 5:15 PM

V Tom: You can make that statement come true by committing yourself to campaigning and defeating Board members who do act against citizen interests, in terms of money, volunteer work and organizing/asking our friends and neighbors to vote for enlightened candidates who serve citizens' interests and booting out the rascals!.
By Obbservant (449), southampton on Jan 20, 11 3:14 PM
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They are a shady bunch on the Town council, sometimes I think Nancy is the only one who knows the meaning of integrity.
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Jan 20, 11 8:05 PM
Nancy was chair of the planning board when her husband got approval for a 10-lot subdivision where the public reserve was "privatized" by hiding it behind the properties instead of placing it on the road frontage for the public to enjoy, which was the primary intent of the open space law.

If Nancy had any integrity she wouldn't be bowing to Nuzzi, Malone and party instructions.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Jan 21, 11 4:34 PM
Next election we can call Anna - Ms. Thrown Toast!
Don't let the door hit yah where the good lord split yah Toasty.
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Jan 20, 11 8:07 PM