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Nov 16, 2018 7:27 AMPublication: The Southampton Press

UPDATE: Opponents Raise Concerns Over Southampton ZBA's Decision To Approve East Quogue Golf Course As Recreational Amenity

Chairman Adam Grossman
Nov 25, 2018 12:01 PM

UPDATE: FRIDAY, 2:30 p.m.

Several community members spoke out in opposition to the Southampton Town Zoning Board of Appeal’s decision to approve an 18-hole golf course as an accessory recreational amenity to a 118-unit subdivision in East Quogue on Friday.

Leading the argument were three environmentalists, Dick Amper, Bob DeLuca, and Andrea Spilka, each of whom made it clear that the ZBA’s decision, in their opinion, paves the way for “disaster.”

Mr. Amper, executive director of the Long Island Pine Barrens Society, said that in making the decision to approve the golf course, the ZBA made it clear that it does not “prioritize” protecting the environment.

He, as well as his colleagues, have repeatedly argued that the developers behind the proposal—Discovery Land Company—would not have spent four years lobbying for a change of zone at the Town Board level, if they didn’t need it in order to build their development.

“The fact that the ZBA said that they didn't need one in the first place is preposterous,” Mr. Amper said on Friday morning. “It’s a disaster. The message it sends is: ‘If you can’t get it through the legislative branch of government, try something else.’”

However, ZBA Chairman Adam Grossman, who voted against the proposal, noted that the Town Board’s decision to deny the developer’s PDD request last year, by no means plays a part in the ZBA’s interpretation of the Town Code.

“Just because the Town Board turned down the PDD does not bind the Planning Board or my board in terms of how we process this application,” he said.

The 16-page written decision, drafted by Assistant Town Attorney Kathryn Garvin, read: “This board rejects the assertion that deference must be given to the Town Board’s determination … since the Town Board considered a membership golf course open to the public rather than a private golf course.”

Furthering his argument, Mr. Amper pointed to the ZBA’s blatant disregard of several points made by Hampton Bays environmental attorney Carolyn Zenk, who repeatedly referenced the town’s “open space law,”—the original intent of which was to preserve natural and scenic resources within environmentally sensitive areas, such as the Pine Barrens, within Southampton Town.

“There was no legitimate rationale for approving it so they tried to duck [the open space law],” he said of the ZBA.

Ms. Spilka agreed: “To me, they were remiss in picking and choosing the parts of the law that they would look at. I think they abdicate their role as an appointed board when they do that.”

In a prepared statement on Friday, Mr. DeLuca noted that the ZBA “simply ignored the qualified testimony of expert planners who defended Southampton Town’s environmental zoning.

“Instead, the ZBA cloaked itself in the developer’s ‘voluminous’ submissions and citations from Webster’s dictionary, Google searches about golf course communities elsewhere on the planet, and Wikipedia,” he continued.

On Friday, Mr. Grossman would not comment on the ZBA’s decision to look outside of Southampton Town for examples of golf course communities, noting that the “decision speaks for itself.”

The decision read: “The Board may look outside of the Town limits to consider whether golf courses are customarily incidental accessory uses elsewhere in the country.” Citing Wikipedia’s defined term, ‘golf course community,’ “this board cannot ignore that golf courses are found elsewhere in the state and the country as an accessory use to residential developments.”

It also recognized that in Southampton Town, small private courses with as many as nine holes have been allowed as accessory uses on private properties. For example, a nine-hole golf course on the Cow Neck peninsula in North Sea, which, similarly to the East Quogue proposal, was built on a large and environmentally sensitive swath of land in a residential zone.

Moving forward, Mr. Amper could not confirm whether the Pine Barrens Society will pursue legal action, however, he did say that he would be “very surprised” should the organization’s board of directors “look the other way.”

“The war isn’t over by any means,” he said, adding that, in his opinion, the zoning board’s rationale will not hold up legally.

However, the rationale behind each individual board member is unclear.

As is its custom, the ZBA voted Thursday on a written decision that had been drafted in advance by Ms. Garvin. There was no discussion of the individual board members' votes at Thursday's meeting—and, in fact, no board member has discussed his or her views on the application at a single public meeting held prior to the vote.

The state's Open Meetings Law requires all "deliberation,”—every substantive discussion that leads to a vote, not just the vote itself—to take place in public.

But the ZBA routinely sidesteps the law by never holding such a discussion when there is a quorum present. Instead, Ms. Garvin, the attorney for the board, meets individually with its members and drafts a written opinion based on what they have to say about the application. Then the vote is held in public.

However, when the developer’s PDD request was rejected by the Town Board, each individual board member offered a detailed analysis explaining the rationale behind their decision. Following that public vote, Discovery Land filed a $100 million lawsuit, in which those who voted against the proposal—board members Julie Lofstad and John Bouvier—were specifically targeted.

Mr. Grossman, who, on Friday, declined to offer his rationale for voting against the application, said that the ZBA, as a non-legislative body, is not bound by the same standards as the Town Board.

‘We have a different way of doing things,” he said. “There’s no requirement to do a public discussion of any kind.”

That process is of great concern to Ms. Spilka, who on Friday, said that in doing so, the ZBA has set a “bad precedent.”

“It was absolutely inappropriate that they didn’t come forward with their rationale,” she said.

The six board members—including Helene Burgess, who voted against the proposal—did not immediately return phone calls on Friday.

Another key point that was deemed as a deciding factor in the ZBA’s decision to approve the golf course, has caused much concern among community members.

Referenced several times in the 16-page written decision, was a 1998 New York State Supreme Court ruling, which allowed industrialist Ira Rennert, a Sagaponack homeowner, to build a “playhouse” as an accessory structure to his 57,770-square-foot home on Daniels Lane.

At that time, the ZBA ruled that the playhouse—which included a 10,000-square-foot recreational building, a 20-car garage, a 3,000-square-foot garden pavilion, a beach pavilion, guard houses and other accessory structures totaling approximately 38,000 square feet—constituted an accessory use under the Town Code.

It’s worth mentioning, however, that following that decision, the Town Board adopted limits on house sizes.

Still, Mr. Grossman argued that aspects of the Rennert decision, such as the size of the lot, were useful in analyzing Discovery Land’s application.

“Just because the Town Code is subsequently changed, doesn’t nullify or make ineffective a prior ZBA decision,” he said. “That doesn’t mean that the decision doesn’t have any value any longer.”


On Thursday, the Southampton Town Zoning Board of Appeals ruled in favor of developers looking to build a 18-hole golf course as a recreational amenity to a proposed 118-unit subdivision off Spinney Road in East Quogue.

In a 5-2 vote, with only board member Helene Burgess and Chairman Adam Grossman voting against, board member Cornelius Kelly read from a pre-written decision that the regulatory board found the golf course to be comparable to other recreational amenities such as swimming pools and tennis courts allowed under a little used portion of the town code: a Planned Residential District, or PRD.

The question of whether or not the golf course as well as its accompanying maintenance buildings constituted as an accessory use, came roughly a year after the developers behind the proposal—Arizona-based Discovery Land Company—failed to convince the Town Board to approve a Planned Development District, or PDD, for their previous, nearly identical proposal, ‘The Hills at Southampton.”

The proposal was then modified to allow only the residents of the subdivision and their non-paying guests access to the golf course, whereas previously it would have been available to the public at large.

The ZBA was tasked with interpreting the “accessory use” portion of the zoning code after the Planning Board sought clarification as it reviewed the developer’s pre-application, which was approved, sans the pertinent question.

Currently, there is no set list of every permitted accessory use in the town code, according to Mr. Grossman.

Therefore, in the 16-page written decision, Mr. Kelly noted that as the town code does not explicitly prohibit a golf course as an accessory use, they chose to look at several examples of residential golf courses not just in Southampton Town but across the country.

The statement read: ““They are so commonplace that Wikipedia offers the defined term ‘golf course community,’ ”

Mentioned in the decision was an argument made repeatedly by Wayne Bruyn, an attorney at Southampton-based O’Shea, Marcincuk and Bruyn LLP and who represents Discovery Land. At previous board meetings he has pointed to a nine-hole golf course on the Cow Neck peninsula in North Sea, which, similarly to the East Quogue proposal, was built on a large and environmentally sensitive swath of land in a residential zone.

The ZBA found it to be comparable when considering the 591-acre swath of land, on which both the residential subdivision and the golf course would sit.

“This board finds that the size and scale of the proposed golf course with its membership restrictions render is subordinate and incidental to the 118-unit subdivision.”

In addition, the ZBA determined that the board has routinely approved other accessory structures and uses, which are not specifically listed in the code’s table of use regulations, including “an artist studio, sports, barn, and spa suites.”

“This board found that … under Town Code 330-10, customary accessory structures or uses are permitted in all residential districts unless they are expressly prohibited.”

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Here comes the appeal and lawsuit.
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Nov 16, 18 7:54 AM
2 members liked this comment
You call someplace paradise
Kiss it goodbye...

~ The Last Resort (The Eagles, 1976)
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Nov 16, 18 11:17 PM
P.S. Some rich men came and raped the land,
Put up a bunch of ugly boxes,
And Jesus, people bought 'em.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Nov 16, 18 11:21 PM
One year ago, before John and Julie voted no on the PDD, The Press did a story on how Discovery had this path to a golf course without the PDD. John and Julie knew this would be the outcome and yet they chose to vote no to:
$1 million for upgraded septic systems in East Quogue
$500,000 to East Quogue school for capital improvements
A new playground at the East Quogue School
Funding for water quality projects for Weesuck Creek
Public Trails
College Scholarships for East Quogue ...more
By cmac (184), East Quogue on Nov 16, 18 8:26 AM
i think that the point is that the current vote in favor of the golf course is also bad
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (747), southampton on Nov 16, 18 10:16 AM
2 members liked this comment
Just like the McDonald's Shop Right fiasco the board as a habit of overreaching ...
By joe hampton (3461), The Hamptons on Nov 17, 18 2:36 PM
By local 84 (353), riverhead on Nov 17, 18 2:37 PM
The end result is still a golf course.

No amount of DL's bribes would have diminished that fact.

I guess you and the other pro-incorporation people are ok with a golf course as long as you can get something out of it, right?

By 2329702 (67), East Quogue on Nov 19, 18 11:11 AM
cmac: East Quogue is bribed and fooled and the rest of Southampton Town gets polluted water. The developers and their lies will destroy the Hamptons long before climate change.
By P. Revere (152), hampton Bays on Nov 16, 18 9:00 AM
Not all of EQ is fooled! I know of those who opposed this project but the simple truth is money buys everything in Southampton. Those fooled cared little about the polluted water and the quality of life for future generations.
By crusader (391), East Quogue on Nov 16, 18 10:44 AM
Good job Julie and John. Just shows you two jare so clueless. No more water treatment or anything. This town of Southampton gets more and more comical as time goes. Great job ZBA and thank you for your hard work. At least one board in the town has some sense in them
By watchoutnow968 (56), Southampton on Nov 16, 18 10:27 AM
2 members liked this comment
By LocalEnthusiast (23), East Quogue on Nov 16, 18 10:27 AM
2 members liked this comment
We told you, we told you , we told! They were going to build know matter what. The civic association had themselves convinced that the builders would pack up and go away. Thanks for nothing, as in we as a community get nothing from this developer. We had our chance to do the right thing, to get many benefits for us and you and Julie and John f*#%ed it up for all of us.
By whp (21), East Quogue on Nov 16, 18 10:48 AM
You underestimate the community, which will fight this tooth and nail to the end.......and beyond! The ridiculous, pathetic, paltry crumbs dropped perfunctorily in the guise of "community benefits" in exchange for what environmentalists have warned as another destruction of our groundwater that will affect so many communities well beyond EQ, and likely well beyond Southampton Town will not fool anyone beyond the paid professionals paid not to understand the dangers.

DLC and their paid local ...more
By Obbservant (449), southampton on Nov 20, 18 10:48 PM
1 member liked this comment
Good luck with that.
By bb (922), Hampton Bays on Nov 27, 18 4:23 PM
Both sides won a battle, but the war will rage on. This is NOT OVER by a long shot.
By Taz (725), East Quogue on Nov 16, 18 11:07 AM
2 members liked this comment
Can long term residents still dump garbage at the end of Spinney Road? I mean thats whats it there for right?
By jim (48), hampton bays on Nov 16, 18 11:46 AM
1 member liked this comment
top notch negotiation. no you can't build your golf course and give the town a ton of money and land!!!! you can build it if you don't let the public play the course and keep your money and land! well played all!!!
By deanonyc (1), East Quogue on Nov 16, 18 11:59 AM
Can I now build a putt putt golf and rollercoaster on my property if I only let my family members and friends use the putt putt and coaster ? I promise to limit use and will give Hampton Bays a new swing and money bars.
By P. Revere (152), hampton Bays on Nov 16, 18 1:02 PM
1 member liked this comment
Once again the mentality that all developers are evil. Trade off, a public place to a private, members only facility. For a town that is so concerned with the "Public Benefit" they overplayed their hand. Could have been handled much better. This is what happens when the JV plays the Varsity.
By The Real World (368), southampton on Nov 16, 18 1:34 PM
Yup Screwed up. Should have let the PDD go through then at least the EQ would have received some public benefit. Now not. Golf at the Bridge, Sebonac, and Atlantic. All recent Golf Courses that are monitored. Guess what? No Issues. Who would have thought that.... At least there will be an increased tax base for the school system....
By North Sea Citizen (568), North Sea on Nov 16, 18 2:26 PM
2 members liked this comment
Your statement is deceptive and not accurate. the Tuckahoe community which houses about 4 big golf courses has long chafed and complained that those golf courses are a big part of their fiscal problems.

They occupy so much of their land and are given special preferences that do not primarily benefit residents, only the exclusive private members. The golf courses pay, through previous political corruption and legislation, pay a fraction in real estate taxes compared to ordinary homeowners, ...more
By Obbservant (449), southampton on Nov 20, 18 11:07 PM
1 member liked this comment
I'll admit I totally lost interest in this story as I knew they were going to approve it anyway eventually.

My only question is (and it's a dumb one, I know) is will this golf course be public or private?

I'm pretty sure I already know that answer to this too.
By johnj (1024), Westhampton on Nov 16, 18 3:48 PM
This is the stupidest thing I have seen in 30 years of paying taxes to live in East Quogue plus ten years renting in the village. There is no benefit to anyone but these questionable characters from Arizona; and to base the decision on wording and semantics and the definition of "accessory usage" is beyond ridiculous Welcome to BLACK BAYS
By jeffaada (6), East Quogue on Nov 16, 18 3:56 PM
how does one get on the ZBA? I assume they are appointed, not elected
By North of Highway (280), New York on Nov 16, 18 4:12 PM
By Craigcat (258), Speonk on Nov 16, 18 5:12 PM
1 member liked this comment
The Southampton Town Board are masters of the small picture. Whatever vote gets them through the next hearing and the next election, that’s their orientation. No matter how small minded, how shortsighted. True leaders would have gotten ahead of this process, and gotten the community maximum benefit if the outcome were reasonably inevitable. Used their leverage while they had it. This group of amateurs whiffed yet again. Zero leadership in the Town right now.
By CPalmer (122), Southampton on Nov 16, 18 4:44 PM
1 member liked this comment
Soon, backyard helipads will be ubiquitous...
By V.Tomanoku (790), southampton on Nov 16, 18 5:37 PM
2 members liked this comment
Rumored but I have no personal proof that the various ZBAs are interconnected and help each other's friends. I was told that they are required by rules to conduct themselves totally in public. Miraculously without public discussion they reach decisions and someone writes a decision. Evidently all is done without conversation or 'non-public' discussion. In Salem, MA in years past they would be called witches.
By TheTurtle (143), Southampton on Nov 16, 18 6:42 PM
1 member liked this comment
Aren't they supposed to make a decision? How can you write a decision before hand without knowing the answer. Just another lost soul in this town. Nice logo are you 10? Thank you ZBA, Julie and Bouvier are complete lost souls. Discovery deserves this. Local baymen go thank Julie for polluting the water. She is so laughable
By watchoutnow968 (56), Southampton on Nov 16, 18 10:16 PM
Discovery doesn't 'deserve' a damn thing! They have threatened and bullied and litigated the Town into giving into their demand for a golf course over OUR aquafer . Disgusting capitulation ZBA.
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Nov 17, 18 7:02 AM
2 members liked this comment
Yes Turtle I wondered the same thing .. According to their own semantics & little tricky bylaws avoidance They always come to conclusion & vote without discussion ??
So childesh
By dave h (193), calverton on Nov 16, 18 9:09 PM
Im calling Julie Lofstad office. She seems like a confused lost soul. She is so shot and probably the worst board member this town has voted in. She is against safe drinking water with what the hllls was proposing but wants to sell the HBWD down the road for safe drinking water. Folks we need to pay more attention to the people or " donkeys that get voted in.Julie please step down you are so confused. You and Bouvier are def top 5 worst town board members in the history of town hall. Hopefully they ...more
By watchoutnow968 (56), Southampton on Nov 16, 18 10:12 PM
This theme of game playing and how the Town Board blew it is so consistent throughout this thread that one could well think the commenters are being supplied with their material by a single source, I.e., the developer.

One question: Will the member/owners at Discovery’s Dune Deck location have golfing privileges at Lewis Road? If so (and I bet it will be so), then the golf course won’t be an accessory use to the Lewis Road residences because it won’t be restricted to ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1979), Quiogue on Nov 16, 18 10:12 PM
1 member liked this comment
Water under the Turkey Bridge, George. Your team effed this one up.
By Draggerman (955), Southampton on Nov 16, 18 11:28 PM
The Southampton Press is certainly beginning to play fast and loose with the facts here. After burying the original story of the ZBA's approval of the project by "updating it" and changing the title needlessly they now claim "Community Members" have raised complaints. The big problem here is that they have not named a single member of the East Quogue community. They have not even cited a single individual who resides within the entire Town of Southampton.

Instead, we get the griping ...more
By VOS (1241), WHB on Nov 17, 18 1:49 AM
still on the payroll I see
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Nov 17, 18 7:04 AM
2 members liked this comment
... you dont reside within the East Quogue community. The developers dont reside with in the East Quogue community - in fact, they live in Arizona.
By William Rodney (561), southampton on Nov 17, 18 9:20 AM
2 members liked this comment
Nor do Dick Amper, Bob DeLuca, or Andrea Spilka
By cmac (184), East Quogue on Nov 17, 18 3:07 PM
I noticed that too Vos. Don't worry they'll up date it again with a single quote from Al Algeri and nothing from the East Quogue residents that have vocally supported the Hill project from the beginning.
By Damon.Hagan (34), East Quogue on Nov 17, 18 6:37 AM
Thank you Southampton Press for keeping track of this incredibly relentless ploy to frustrate the will of the people of the Town of Southampton. The assistant Town attorney supporting this new legal challenge by a develioer who has filed a lawsuit that targets members of the Town Board personally -- what a disgusting turn of events. The corrupt stench of moneyed interest is astounding.
By dfree (818), hampton bays on Nov 17, 18 11:31 AM
2 members liked this comment
EQ pro-golf residents: This is not just about you. Adults consider effects outside their immediate playground.
By Taz (725), East Quogue on Nov 17, 18 12:37 PM
2 members liked this comment
Taz, Its not just about people who live next to the coarse either. Think about it. Its not like we are asking you to live next the new Boardy Barn! Its a golf coarse you'll live.
By 27dan (2854), Shinnecock Hills on Nov 17, 18 12:44 PM
Tell that to the Pine Barren Society, the Group for the East End and all the other orgs and people concerned about our ground water and bays. Hope you like drinking polluted water, swimming in brown water and eating shell fish and fin fish with toxins in them. It's not juast a golf course. BTW, I live in EQ and would probably benefit financially from it - but selfishness is not my thing.
By Taz (725), East Quogue on Nov 17, 18 12:56 PM
2 members liked this comment
I would love it if the editor could explain which "community members" raised concerns? None of the people quoted are East Quogue residents. In fact, not one of these "environmentalists" has said a word about the abandoned, Town owned landfill on the other side of Lewis Rd that is currently contaminating our water in East Quogue. Wouldn't "community members" care about that too?
By cmac (184), East Quogue on Nov 17, 18 2:49 PM
Darned copy editor...cut out "at large"...should have read "the community at large"...
By V.Tomanoku (790), southampton on Nov 17, 18 4:08 PM
Cmac, really? You've seen community members at odds about this, all you need to do is look at the FB page. Remember the members that raised their concerns on there over many months? The ones you and your husband and other pro-DL people talked down to and ridiculed and some even kicked out of the group? But now in a public forum you play dumb, LOL.
By 2329702 (67), East Quogue on Nov 19, 18 11:40 AM
1 member liked this comment
EQ residents can care about environmental issues stemming from the potential Spinney Hills development and also care about the problems on Lewis Rd. Though it's typically best to focus on the specific issue being discussed at meeetings / in articles rather than bringing up every issue that one is aware of all at once. ...
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (747), southampton on Nov 19, 18 11:54 AM
1 member liked this comment
Happy to see that The Press chose to change the headline.
By cmac (184), East Quogue on Nov 19, 18 5:20 PM
We need additional headline changes:

'opponents' should not be in the headline - the use of this word is a mischaracterization and is vague - are these opponents of the ZBA? are these the members of the ZBA who voted no?

'east quogue golf course' - should be changed to 'private golf course in east quogue' b/c the course does not belong to east quogue
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (747), southampton on Nov 20, 18 8:35 AM
1 member liked this comment
What is so hard to understand about 5 (five) Acre Residential Zoning? That is what these "Friends"of East Quogue bought. No PDD no PRD just 5 acre residential zoning in a fragile Pine Barren area which is surrounded by No Development areas. A private 18 hole golf resort is not a swimming pool or a tennis court or a Playhouse, whatever that is, and Rennert was not trying to get around any zoning. How can an appointed ZBA control the Fate of a Village nearby hamlets and the Township? What is a five ...more
By jeffaada (6), East Quogue on Nov 18, 18 4:33 PM
Really smells of political corruption and special interests at work. An obviously anti-people, anti- environment, anti-zoning initiative turned down by the Town's elected officials,every legitimate East End environmental watchdog, opposed by the Southampton community and its elected officials, all of a sudden approved in utter secrecy by an unelected Board without any public input.

We thought these types of political corruption were already excised by the community with the demise of Anna ...more
By Obbservant (449), southampton on Nov 18, 18 11:06 PM
Again and again, people fall into, or consciously adopt, the trope of this being an exclusively East Quogue issue. It’s not, because the ground water and surface water that’s at stake here extends far beyond East Quogue, probably even beyond Southampton Town.

The threatened area is vast and anyone in that area has a right to speak out. Indeed, even people outside the area have the same right, in the interest of protecting their own land, water and air against a similar risk. ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1979), Quiogue on Nov 20, 18 9:21 AM
2 members liked this comment
There is no "threatened area." The ground water and surface water are not at stake here. The environmental impact statements accepted by the town do not support any such premise.

What you are doing is fertilizing the boogie man theory that the Nimbys and Bananas are hanging their hats upon that has no scientific basis. Why not have the intellectual honesty to admit that some people simply want to "build absolutely nothing anywhere near anything" and will create their own scenario of ...more
By VOS (1241), WHB on Nov 20, 18 12:35 PM
LOL! Coming from the one who won't admit that they are here working on behalf of DLC - wooooo
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (747), southampton on Nov 20, 18 2:18 PM
Good tactic - when you cannot face the facts, just build on your fallacies.
By VOS (1241), WHB on Nov 21, 18 2:47 PM
did you just copy/paste from your personal journal?
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (747), southampton on Nov 21, 18 9:23 PM
... it is also reassuring to know that the ZBA based this iteration of a final decision on information gleaned from Wikipedia.
By William Rodney (561), southampton on Nov 20, 18 10:05 AM
Not sure why the Press is ignoring what everyone wants info on but, FYI the Rechler Boathouse Project that is part of the CPI restoration has begun last week ?

I thought the CPI was supposed to happed first ???
By 27dan (2854), Shinnecock Hills on Nov 25, 18 3:16 PM
That was the deal they had with the town hopefully we will get more information today!
By Ditch Bum (929), Water Mill on Nov 26, 18 7:35 AM
The deal with the town is that Certificates of Occupancy for the townhouses will be granted proportionately to the progress being made on the Canoe Place Inn renovation. As of now they are entitled to zero townhouse CO's. The deal also included the proviso that trees on the townhouse site would be preserved, particularly around the marina area. As of last week it appears that only three trees remain in that area of what was a fairly wooded hillside.

Still no indication of how and why ...more
By VOS (1241), WHB on Dec 2, 18 3:37 AM
Since no one else wants to report on this I will... Work started on the CPI today .
By joe hampton (3461), The Hamptons on Dec 3, 18 8:28 PM
1 member liked this comment