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Aug 2, 2011 9:54 AMPublication: The East Hampton Press

Bishop Votes In Favor Of Debt Ceiling Deal; President Signs Measure

Aug 3, 2011 11:54 AM

U.S. Representative Tim Bishop of Southampton voted Monday in favor of a bipartisan compromise to raise the federal government’s borrowing limit, a deal that ended chaotic negotiations in Washington, D.C., that brought the nation hours away from default.

The deal passed, 268-161, in the House of Representatives on Monday. The legislation, which contains $900 billion in spending cuts over the next 10 years and a strong impetus for further cuts amounting to a total of $2.4 trillion, passed with support from both parties, with 174 Republicans and 95 Democrats voting in favor.

It passed, 74-26, in the Senate on Tuesday, with one of New York’s senators, Charles E. Schumer, voting in favor, and the other, Kirsten E. Gillibrand, voting against. President Barack Obama signed it into law later that day.

The deal was anathema to many of Mr. Bishop’s fellow Democrats, some of whom complained that initial deficit-reduction measures relied solely on spending cuts, instead of a mix of cuts and added revenues, or that slashing spending during a stagnant economy could propel the country back into recession.

Mr. Bishop expressed resigned support for the deal, saying it was necessary to protect the economy from the disastrous effects of a default, but said he would have preferred a compromise that ended tax cuts and closed tax loopholes for the wealthiest Americans and corporations.

“I am disappointed that this legislation does not ask all Americans to share the sacrifice,” he said in a press release issued after the vote Monday evening. “Many of these cuts will increase the burden on middle-class families while preserving corporate tax loopholes and tax cuts for millionaires. In the weeks and months to come, I will continue to aggressively advocate for repealing corporate tax loopholes, starting with $4 billion in wasted subsidies to encourage drilling when oil is $100 a barrel. I will continue to stand strong in support of Medicare and Social Security.”

On Tuesday, Mr. Bishop said he would hold out hope that a 12-member special commission, which will be convened later this year as part of the deal, would recommend some form of revenue increases to reduce the nation’s $14 trillion deficit further. He called it a “fundamental reality” that if no revenue increases materialize, the only way to balance the budget will be through “massive cuts” to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

Mr. Bishop, who is serving his fifth term, also had harsh words for conservative Republicans who swept into the House of Representatives last fall, saying they bear responsibility for taking the nation to the brink of default.

“This has been an ugly process, made so by the extremism of a small group whose fealty to a rigid and flawed ideology made a more reasoned process impossible,” he said in Monday’s press release. “As the debate on America’s future course continues, I will always pursue the national interest above partisan concerns and put thoughtful governing ahead of blind ideology.”

When asked to elaborate on Tuesday, Mr. Bishop said new Republican members of the House displayed a “fixation with spending cuts as the only solution to the debt crisis,” which he said is “totally at odds with facts and reality.”

Another trait of new Republican members, Mr. Bishop said, is an “obsession with no new taxes and no new revenues, to the point that even tax loopholes or tax preferences that long ago outlived their usefulness remain untouchable, totally untouchable, and this notion that any tax you raise is a job killer. There’s absolutely no evidence to support that.”

Randy Altschuler, the St. James businessman who challenged Mr. Bishop last year and is seeking a “rematch” in 2012, also said in a press release on Wednesday that he would have grudgingly voted for the compromise, but criticized both sides for coming up with legislation that “tries to put out a five-alarm fire with a garden hose, while ignoring the job crisis that everyone outside the beltway bubble believes should be our top priority right now.”

Mr. Altschuler, a Republican, also criticized Mr. Bishop for being an “inconsequential back bencher who has never offered solutions to the very serious challenges facing the country like our failing economy and massive debt,” and for supporting policies that he said have aggravated the nation’s problems.

“He’s the poster child for everything people dislike about Washington and the Congress,” Mr. Altschuler said.

The deal raises the federal government’s debt limit by $2.4 trillion, in two stages, while also mandating $900 billion in spending cuts spread out over 10 years that will begin to take effect in 2012. The special joint commission will be charged with finding an additional $1.5 trillion in additional cuts or revenue increases.

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Mr. Bishop, you have voted for a terrible bill that will cause even more unemployment. The democrats have allowed the teaparty to hijack the conversation and the American people. Give a hostage taker what he wants and he will only take more hostages. Just watch what they do in November when after this ridiculous super panel makes its recommendation to increase revenues.
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Aug 2, 11 10:43 AM
at last count over 45% of citizens identified with the principles of the tea party. this whole terrorist gig, while unbelievably obvious is the silliest thing. All of a sudden its ok for liberals to throw around terrorist in one of the most un politically correct attacks I can remember. all of a sudden folks that the left doesn't like are middle eastern. that's real nice, and don't act like you are not trying to make that connection. americans hate middle eastern terrorists so trying to id ...more
By HSA (68), southampton on Aug 2, 11 10:50 AM
Terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Defaulting on public debt would be unconstitutional, so, to use the threat of default as a political tool is a violation of the constitution, i.e. "Unlawful"
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Aug 2, 11 1:21 PM
1 member liked this comment
"Even in a fake democracy, the people should get what they want once in a while. Just to let them feel like they're actually in control."

~ George Carlin
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 2, 11 6:39 PM
1 member liked this comment
Wow, Tim has become nothing more than a sad, tired parrot swinging the bat at the glorious congressional baseball game. It is there that he has more succes. Let me put this bluntly, Tim thinks you are stupid. Let make this extremely clear, our representative Timothy Bishop of Southampton, NY thinks you are an idiot. He issues a sadly partisan statement like this, complete with the class warfare that he needs to use so that he divides us. This divisive language is that of a loser, not a leader. ...more
By HSA (68), southampton on Aug 2, 11 10:45 AM
In your previous post you attempt to portray yourself as a moderate, reasonable, anti-label conservative and then you go off on Tim with some of the most divisive language I have seen. Does consistency not matter?
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Aug 2, 11 12:52 PM
consistency = it is us v. them, believe it or not, the only way we the people win and beat these scoundrels if we the people realize we are all on the same team. a citizenry of sheep breed a leadership of rabid dogs. k street is exhibit a. if power corrupts and d.c. is the center of power, then by definition it is the center of corruption and our demicans and republicrats get away with crime day in and day out. count me as tired of paying for it. consistency is found in my message that we the ...more
By HSA (68), southampton on Aug 3, 11 8:25 AM
The deal is a sham. It does nothing to decrease spending. Only in D.C. can decreasing the amount of spending increase be touted as a spending cut.
By Duckbornandraised (184), Eastport on Aug 2, 11 10:53 AM
Timmy is nothing more than a parrot rehashing liberal talking points. He needs to be voted out next election and find something he has never a had...a real job in the private sector
By razza5350 (1911), East Hampton on Aug 2, 11 11:50 AM
1 member liked this comment
Razza, it was a REPUBLICAN bill that passed the house with far more REPUBLICANS voting in favor than democrats. Facts matter. I am against the bill because for different reasons than you, but it is NOT "Timmy's" bill, it is Boehner's bill. As the speaker just said in an interview with CBS "I got 98% of what I wanted. I'm pretty happy"
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Aug 2, 11 1:01 PM
advocates of reduced government spending: what payments by the US federal government would you all like to see cut? be specific: defense spending, what amount, weapons systems and veterans benefits would be best left unpaid? healthcare for the elderly? at what age would you start or stop payments and what types of medical care would you want to see eliminated? social security? who would stop receiving payments and at what age? please be specific.
By davidf (325), hampton bays on Aug 2, 11 12:05 PM
2 members liked this comment
Just a few ideas.
1. Eliminate earmarks
2. Cut federal aid to states by 5%. Granted some state taxes like NY will go up but why penalize states that are run efficiently
3. Cut the federal workforce by 10%
4. reduce nuclear arms and space spending
5. Cancel or delay some weapons systems programs
6. Enact Medical Malpractice reform
7. Increase medicare eligibilty to age 68 if you are under the age of 50 (I am)
8. Cap medicare growth at GDP plus 1%. This would crack ...more
By razza5350 (1911), East Hampton on Aug 3, 11 9:22 AM
1 member liked this comment
2010 Department of Education budget: $59.2 billion of which $27 billion was Pell Grants which are now "mandatory" by vote of US Congress

2010 Welfare: $99.3 Billion food and nutrition (code: 605), $194 billion unemployment (603), $77 billion housing assistance (604), "0ther income security" (609): $186.8 billion
By davidf (325), hampton bays on Aug 2, 11 12:14 PM
1 member liked this comment
davidf, here are 50, very precise and detailed spots where money can be saved/cut. you will see that none of the stereotypical items you listed, in your effort to demonstrate that either the people suffer or we send more money...its blatantly dishonest and utterly naive'. do you still think ''the man'' is doing the right think with your $$?

1. The federal government made at least $72 billion in improper payments in 2010.[1]
2. Washington spends $92 billion on corporate welfare ...more
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Aug 2, 11 12:33 PM
any questions?
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Aug 2, 11 12:35 PM
1 member liked this comment
Yes, can you provide citations to authority either for the list entire for or the individually enumerated examples?
By highhatsize (4217), East Quogue on Aug 2, 11 1:26 PM
These are mostly earmarks, give-aways to constituents in exchange for votes. When congresspeople, democrats or republicans, talk about spending cuts, they are, unfortunately, not talking about their pet projects.

In fact, if you look at the original Boehner bill there was no mention of cutting subsidies to oil companies or funding for fictional colleges, but he did specifically propose cutting Pell Grants.
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Aug 2, 11 1:31 PM
When can we expect the House to attack the issues that appear to be "no-brainers"? Or tell us why they're not? I have a feeling that what you (or your anonymous source) calls corporate welfare may very well be near and dear to many politicians.
By VOS (1241), WHB on Aug 2, 11 2:04 PM
[1]Government Accountability Office, Improper Payments: Progress Made but Challenges Remain in Estimating and Reducing Improper Payments, GAO-09-628T, April 22, 2009, at /static/reportimages/848E2EF8FE88B7FD87B3621E2B5FC0EA.pdf (October 5, 2009).

[2]The Cato Institute estimates that corporate welfare costs $92 billion annually (not even counting the $700 billion TARP legislation). SeeStephen Slivinski, "The Corporate Welfare State: How the Federal Government Subsidizes U.S. Businesses," ...more
Aug 2, 11 3:51 PM appended by sparkyibew
To HighHat here are: "the individually enumerated examples". This is a nice site you folks have here, too bad we don't have anything like that here in Washington, D.C.
By sparkyibew (6), southampton on Aug 2, 11 3:51 PM
16 TRILLION dollars in welfare to the upper 10% is OK.

But, Socialism for the rest of the country is BAD.

Let's hear it for AMERICA!!!!
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 2, 11 6:45 PM
@ dagdavid:

"give-aways to constituents in exchange for votes"

Why don't we call a spade, a spade. Shovel is a shovel. Need it for the horse-s**t. It's outright bribery.

NOTE to everyone ready to scream "BIGOT!" : The phrase predates the use of the word "spade" as an ethnic slur against African-Americans, which was not recorded until 1928; however, in contemporary U.S. society, the idiom is often avoided due to potential confusion with the slur.

Just to there ...more
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 2, 11 9:41 PM
Who is your source, Kaluss?
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 2, 11 10:02 PM
and here is another update for you: as soon as the president signed, the dow dropped 240 points.

do not let there be any mistake about how awful this day is for our country. the new super congress has just been launched and our country is on its way to bankruptcy. if you look at that list above of 50 examples of waste, and then look at the evenly balanced list of references and still think that the government is fair to confiscate any more of anyone's money, you have been supremely ...more
Aug 2, 11 3:56 PM appended by sparkyibew
Update #3: dow now headed down 270 points and should finish the day below 12,000 points.
By sparkyibew (6), southampton on Aug 2, 11 3:56 PM
More ludicrous teabaggery. The government does not confiscate your money it uses it to provide services. Cut off those revenues, and you cut out those services. But I have a solution: everyone who hates government and taxes and government spending should be able to choose to opt out of everything government provides.

We will set aside a little plot of land for you (let's call it Texas) where you can maintain your own roads, police, and fireman. You can build your own schools and breathe ...more
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Aug 2, 11 5:24 PM
In case anyone of them missed it, the "Tea Party", was funded by people like the Koch Bros., to get experienced incumbents out, and inexperience shuffled through the door of the Capitol.

Seems to have worked wonders, and the chaos is just wonderful.

More like Kool-Aid, than Tea...
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 2, 11 6:50 PM
Lets flip your proposal on its head: you only get to use government services if you pay for them. Currently 51% of the population pays ZERO federal income tax.

Democracy has become a moral hazard.

The USA is being treated as too big to fail by the bond rating agencies.
By Duckbornandraised (184), Eastport on Aug 2, 11 6:51 PM
Problem is, we don't live in a Democracy.

Kleptocracy, Oligarchy, those are two I'd potentially go with.

But, NOT Democracy.

"In the 1950's & 1960's the top tax rate was 70-92%. USA laid the interstate system, built the foundation for the Internet, put a man on the moon, their education system was the envy of world, their middle class thriving, their economy was unparalleled. You want that back? Raise the #$&*!@% taxes on the rich!"

~ Chip Travis
Aug 2, 11 7:13 PM appended by Mr. Z
I'd also consider "Plutocracy".
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 2, 11 7:13 PM
I dont know whats scarier Razza5351's post or the fact that 4 loons liked it. However It would be a very interesting hypothetical study to see if people could opt out what would happen. You would have one "plot of land" that you call Texas and one plot of land "lets call it California". The people fleeing to Texas would be people who are fed up with the current tax system, they work, contribute to society, and want a smaller more efficient GVT. The people in California would lose a huge chunk of ...more
By razza5350 (1911), East Hampton on Aug 3, 11 8:58 AM
perfect. the definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result. you are insane based on that definition. how about this bizarre concept. we're paying for the roads and fire department already for cryin' out loud. when you go into a restaurant do you argue that the menu items are not expensive enough? you are free to send every penny you make to the IRS, no wait, you want everyone else to do that. chump.
By local69 (65), southampton on Aug 3, 11 9:14 AM
in case you you missed it the criminal left is financed by The Rockefeller Foundation, The George Soros Complex, The Ford Foundation, The Heinz Endowment, Voter Fraud Groups such as Acorn, The National Lawyers Guild and the US Communist Party, Jihad Leaders of the CAIR organization, Medea Benjamin and the Cuban Communist Party, The Ruckus Society, The Tides Foundation, Peter Lewis, owner of Progressive Insurance, The Political Mutual Fund Products such as ActBlue Funds (Big wall street) and a host ...more
By local69 (65), southampton on Aug 3, 11 9:26 AM
no, like taking more taxes from over taxed people, giving it to criminals and expecting your life to get better. you do know that we have another president how. he's black if you haven't heard.
By HSA (68), southampton on Aug 4, 11 6:47 AM
I suppose A students should split their grades with D students as well. Libs crack me up. They are so good at spending other peoples money. All you haters with nothin to do but hate. I will help any person that is willing to help themselves. These monthly handouts are dispicable. Welfare money should only be spent on just that. WELFARE! Not big screens and $500 cell phones. If you would like to enjoy the finer things in life, you should earn them. OH yea! How about drug testing for the free money? ...more
By double-D (96), southampton on Aug 7, 11 8:14 PM
We can do without a lot of the "services " provided by the Federal Government. Social Security is a Ponzi scheme that Bernie Madoff would be proud of. Imagine what you could have done with all the $$$ taken from you (confiscated), if it was invested at even 2%. That would be a much bigger payout than you will getfrom the almighty government.
Why is there a Federal Education department when each state has it's own, scratch that "service" too.
How about HUD? Another waste of money.
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Aug 2, 11 5:59 PM
Decimated by Oligarchy.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 2, 11 6:43 PM
Your narrow view of capapbility in society is staggering. Many in society do not have the capability not to be selfish, greedy, and materialistic. Look at our "elite". How many can't screw in a lightbulb? Look at our society, watch COPS. for Christ's sake. Do you grasp how many people in this wreck of our society cannot take care of themselves, or have never been taught how to? Our "system" hasn't necessarily failed, but the people who took control FAILED IT. The people in "power", who do ...more
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 2, 11 9:22 PM
Another brilliant piece of legislation, from our elected a******s.
Aug 2, 11 6:37 PM appended by Mr. Z
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 2, 11 6:37 PM
"Those who oppose all reform will do well to remember that ruin in its worst form is inevitable if our national life brings us nothing better than swollen fortunes for the few and the triumph in both politics and business of a sordid and selfish materialism."

~ Theodore Roosevelt, Wasamatomie, Kansas (August 31, 1910)

Aug 2, 11 7:32 PM appended by Mr. Z
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 2, 11 7:32 PM
I always found this passage to be so very telling about the nature of "Humanity".

"Their reason for killing and destroying such an infinite number of souls is that the Christians have an ultimate aim, which is to acquire gold, and to swell themselves with riches in a very brief time and thus rise to a high estate disproportionate to their merits. It should be kept in mind that their insatiable greed and ambition, the greatest ever seen in the world, is the cause of their villainies. "

~ ...more
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 2, 11 8:48 PM
Phil: The Bush "tax cuts: weren't cuts at all. It just allows the tax rates to remain the same! Time for you to stop watching MSNBC and get your facts straight.
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Aug 3, 11 5:51 AM
When I posted that list of 2.7 trillion in outright waste and you asked me for the source...you didn't actually think it isn't happening day in and day out right. The source is up there...listed individually for each and every one of the 50 points. You'd puke if you actually took some time to look at where your money goes and then realize that there are people that think the government is efficient and simply just doesn't have enough. for those that want to refer to Carlin and he gets caps because ...more
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Aug 3, 11 6:23 AM
I wasn't disputing your info, just wanted to know where you got it. I do see that you supplied links to each point.

Yes, as little govt as possible IMO. But let's be honest, we have fed the pigeons so much for so long that we now have an entire species of pigeons that no longer knows how to, or has any incentive to fend for themselves.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 3, 11 8:59 AM
1 member liked this comment
Here's some more for ya about what us taxpayers are up to lately, when you don't think we send enough of our money to the man. *shaking my head*...

* They supply $175 million a year so the Department of Veterans Affairs can maintain buildings it doesn’t use, including a pink, octagonal monkey house in Dayton, Ohio.
* They pinch pennies so a federal grant program can distribute $1 million to zoos to post bits of poetry to plaques on zoo premises.
* They cushion ...more
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Aug 3, 11 6:31 AM
Philathome you certainly are consistent. He's beating a dead horse? That's your answer to the out of control spending by our govt? You have no argument. Your belief set runs counter to the ideals of what the country was founded on. Quite frankly, you are an enabler and cheerleader for a nanny state. What's worse is the sense of entitlement that you and your ilk have. You demand that "the rich" pay for the mistakes of our out of control govt and invite the govt to expand and screw things up more. ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 3, 11 9:14 AM
Phillys, you work for the government don't you. Who else would ever defensive about a list of tax payer waste. #busted.
By HSA (68), southampton on Aug 3, 11 8:22 AM
"Cato Institute estimates that corporate welfare costs $92 billion annually"

I agree that $92 billion is a big number but please define "corporate welfare" precisely.
Does this mean that you're in favor of raising taxes or eliminating deductions for corporations? Does this not violate the "no new taxes" demands of the conservative wing of the Republican party in this last great debt ceiling debate?
By davidf (325), hampton bays on Aug 3, 11 9:23 AM
1 member liked this comment
Dave, is there a reason you cannot find this low hanging fruit yourself. I don't sense that this frosts you as much as it should, leading me to believe you don't pay much in taxes. But that 92 Billion didn't even count the 700 Billion Dollar TARP hand-out and the other big corporate hand outs that Bush made on the way out or that Obama made on the way in. If you want to negatively connotate me for holding those that confiscate my money accountable, then fine, but many lawmakers focus more on ...more
By sparkyibew (6), southampton on Aug 3, 11 10:23 AM
"The government does not create anything, it just takes." I wish this were a movie where some lunatic bagger was sitting on a bridge repeating that tired and lazy lament. It suddenly begins to snow and then, when said bagger opens his eyes, he is floating in the water because all that government has created, including the bridge he sits on, has disappeared.

Think of everything else that would not exist without the government, and try to be honest with yourself - yeah, I know, you'd ...more
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Aug 3, 11 11:16 AM
1 member liked this comment
Razza, your teabag tourettes is acting up again. I know that you consider yourself so much smarter than anyone else, and any differing opinion most certainly makes someone a "teabagger." The Dow is down 150 points already today. Unemployment is at 9.5%. Barack Obama (Mr. Fixit) is the president. So you have a name for all of those who disagree with you. I have a name for those who have blind faith in a party and refuse to acknowledge the failures and ineptitude of this president. I dare not print ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 3, 11 12:33 PM
Datz right and correct Razza you go baby! tea baggin filth WILL PAY there way! Got IT! good
By local 84 (353), riverhead on Aug 3, 11 2:51 PM
I'm confused, is this $92 billion "corporate welfare" or compensation for "ideas, that are creative and that make money"? If you want to take out all the "corporate welfare" numbers from your list and then add up what's left we can subtract that number from the $2.7 trillion we need to shave off our debts and see what's left for us to cut.
By davidf (325), hampton bays on Aug 3, 11 2:57 PM
Local 84, points are usually taken a bit more seriously when written in a language that human beings can decipher.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 3, 11 3:30 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By sparkyibew (6), southampton on Aug 3, 11 10:26 AM
What can we do to fix America?
1. Mandatory death penalty for legislators who accept “bribes” in any form, including campaign contributions, from any special or other interest group.
2. Start manufacturing products instead of importing goods and outsourcing jobs.
3. Remove the legal fiction that corporations have citizens rights.
4. In times of war or whatever we decide to call violence requiring a U.S. military presence, require the members of Congress to serve ...more
By NTiger (543), Southampton on Aug 3, 11 1:02 PM
3 members liked this comment
Your borderline communist view point is not only scary but about as anti American as it gets.
By 27dan (2854), Southampton on Aug 3, 11 2:48 PM
You obviously have no understanding or knowledge of what communism or patriotism are. You would also be wise to review the law of libel and slander. I will match my honorable discharge from military service with yours, you do have one don't you? Now delineate for me exactly what statements I made above that even suggest a resemblance to "borderline communist view point" or "as anti American as it gets". And while you are at it I'll have your name also Sir. Some may allow libel and slander but ...more
By NTiger (543), Southampton on Aug 3, 11 4:15 PM
2 members liked this comment
"27dan there you go again!"
By NTiger (543), Southampton on Aug 3, 11 4:25 PM
1 member liked this comment
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

~ Samuel Johnson

By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 3, 11 7:29 PM
Apple orders 10 million iPads from a Chinese manufacturer.

They produce 15 million, and sell 5 million on the black market. I agree, stop manufacturing overseas. Well, maybe the numbers aren't exact, but, you get the picture, right?
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 3, 11 7:57 PM
You Da MAN LOLLLLL You r right on my friend. Make those products right here. Force them to have an oposing veiw point to Rush windbag and Glenn Beck on the radio You know it baby! Tax da Corprate Jet Owners 80 Pacent! Equal education for everone! A JOB IS A RIGHT! raise the Miniumum wadge. Yes We Can!
By local 84 (353), riverhead on Aug 3, 11 9:12 PM
Progress Now how many Radicals or Anti America people does Obama have as friends?
And The list goes On and On and On. Here are just a few that come to mind.
Rev Wright,
Madeleine Talbott
Jean Rudd
Emil Jones Jr
Van Jones
Tony Rezko,
Michelle Obama,
Louis Farrakhan,
Bernadine Dorhn,
Rashid Khalidi,
Nadhmi Auchi,
Khalid Al Monsour,
Frank Marshall Davis,
Saul Alinsky,
Father Pfleger,
Kwame Kilpatrick,
Rev Meeks,
George ...more
By They call me (2826), southampton on Aug 3, 11 1:54 PM
4 5 6 8 9 and 12 for starters Komrade! Anti-American, anti Business and unconstitutional. Is your discharge from a branch of the US military?!
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Aug 3, 11 4:30 PM
So, the 50%+ tax rate on the "wealthy", that funded the Hoover Dam, the Eisenhower Interstate system, NASA, the TVA, and so many other great infrastructure projects do not exist in your world?


You really have no clue, do you? Infrastructure has declined, with every percentage point shaven off those tax rates. The I-35 bridge should have been a wake up call. I guess not...
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 3, 11 7:35 PM
12 being the scariest I like the way he tries the sneak in the fairness doctrine as an American virtue
By 27dan (2854), Southampton on Aug 3, 11 8:37 PM
If fairness is not an American virtue, then my friend, it is you who worship the totalitarian state, communist or otherwise. I suggest you reread, assuming you have read them to begin with, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the United States and Amendments thereto, the Gettysburg Address, and the Federalist Papers.
As for "the way he tries to sneak in....". Its pretty apparently obvious, even you managed to notice it. And while we are at it, do you have some fear to set ...more
By NTiger (543), Southampton on Aug 3, 11 9:10 PM
1 member liked this comment
Mine is(USAF), you got a DD214? Know what one is? Ever serve in the military? And other than Calvin Coolidge and Herbert Hoover (you remember them two of our past Republican Presidents) who ever equated patriotism and big business. As for the constitutionality of the suggestions, show me the sections of the constitution that bar any of them for being implemented by Acts of Congress. By the way it was another Republican President, Richard NIxon, remember the guy who resigned, who first suggested ...more
By NTiger (543), Southampton on Aug 3, 11 5:02 PM
1 member liked this comment
"The government of the United States is a device for maintaining in perpetuity the rights of the people, with the ultimate extinction of all privileged classes."

~ Calvin Coolidge

"Blessed are the young for they shall inherit the national debt. "

~ Herbert Hoover
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 3, 11 8:16 PM
1 member liked this comment
"I hope we shall... crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government in a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."

~ Thomas Jefferson

It would seem, we have arrived at the point in History, where the Aristocracy of Corporate Personhood is fully entrenched like a parasite in the very fabric of our government.

What say you?

Aug 3, 11 7:44 PM appended by Mr. Z
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 3, 11 7:44 PM
1 member liked this comment
What say me, Thank goodness I dumped all my stock holdings and canceled my 401K contributions and went all in on gold shortly after Barry was elected. Its been the most profitable no brainer ever.
The rules are simple; socialist radical people who like to print money out of thin air in charge = inflation = gold goes up
Its either stupidity or this administration is trying to bring down the country by design.
Thats what I say!
By Undocumented Democrat (2065), southampton on Aug 3, 11 10:02 PM
The largest stockpiles of gold sits on United States soil.

Go figure...
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 4, 11 11:15 PM
Then lets do an inventory of it. Somthing that has not been done in over 40 years.
By Undocumented Democrat (2065), southampton on Aug 4, 11 11:19 PM
Well, that would be nice.

However, "He who has the gold, makes the rules.".

By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 5, 11 7:58 PM
Judging by all the bickering, one-upmanship, close mindedness, and overall disdain illustrated in the posts here it's clear to me that we actually do have representative government after all.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 4, 11 9:59 AM
In case you were wondering how those that produce goods and services and thus produce the GNP feel about the current state of affairs, the market is down 300 points today in what will turn out to be a 500 point drop since the debt ceiling agreement was signed. This, despite being told we have ''turned the corner'', that ''jobs is the number 1 priority'' that ''its gonna take some time but we are headed in the right direction, we didn't get in this mess overnight'', that biden and congress are going ...more
Aug 4, 11 11:52 AM appended by kaluss
they say i'm an optimist, they must be right. 500 points today alone. if that ain't shared sacrifice don't know what is.
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Aug 4, 11 11:52 AM
1 member liked this comment
So it would seem that the emperor is lacking clothes?
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 4, 11 12:54 PM
Obama and his administration are so bad that they make Bush look good.He has accomplished virtually nothing, shown no leadership on issues, and continually blames others for his failures over the past 2 1/2 years. He is very good at making speechs though
By razza5350 (1911), East Hampton on Aug 4, 11 3:58 PM
1 member liked this comment
Evidently those communists and communist sympathizers who control the stock market must not be satisfied with the lack of revenue enhancements contained in the Tea Party driven "non-comprised" debt ceiling agreement. You know the agreement dictated by the Tea Party minority of the House of Representatives. The blame falls squarely on them, not as you would claim on the President. This mess we find ourselves in has far more far right wing than center or left wing fingerprints upon it. You claimed ...more
By NTiger (543), Southampton on Aug 4, 11 5:25 PM
1 member liked this comment
Honestly where do they dig you people up. Everyone knows this was a deal brokered by moderate dems and repubs and NOT tea party people or so called progressives. I am not a stock broker but believe the major downturn has been more of a result of the global economy and GDP forecasts. The debt ceiling bill doesn't help because it fails to make necessary changes to entitlements. Taxing oil companies will cause gas prices to rise. Taxing corporations and small business making over 250k will further ...more
By razza5350 (1911), East Hampton on Aug 4, 11 6:40 PM
1 member liked this comment
Everyone knows that the failure to include revenue enhancements was due to the Tea Party members of Congress. Calling it a deal brokered by moderate dems and repubs is disingenuous at the least. And while we are at it let us take about the deregulation which lead to the downfall of the world economy and GDP forecasts. Nothing exists in a vacuum, though some would like to play that game. You can have your own opinion, but not, your own set of facts. And taxing oil companies is not quite accurate ...more
By NTiger (543), Southampton on Aug 4, 11 7:54 PM
1 member liked this comment
And he has gone golfing 83 times
By 27dan (2854), Southampton on Aug 4, 11 9:04 PM
Hey Tiger stop with the media matters talking points. Just because you say REVENUE doesn't change the fact that it means TAXES! Elections have consequences and the Tea Party is not finished yet Wait till 2012. Your FDR wet dream is over. Like Big Fresh said last night, God Bless America!
Aug 4, 11 9:11 PM appended by 27dan
sorry cap I just noticed you wrote something very similar
By 27dan (2854), Southampton on Aug 4, 11 9:11 PM
Datz correct they know it the tax cuts will expire soon and they corporate jet owners WILL HAVE TO PAY THERE FAIR SHARE! Got it! the oil companys are to blame for juz about everthing and Halibertion too. You know it. The Tea Party must be destroyed at all coasts.
By local 84 (353), riverhead on Aug 4, 11 9:21 PM
A balanced budget amendment was proposed in 1994 or 1995 as I recall. It went nowhere as it should. Long before any so-called Tea Party existed. You all don't have a clue about how you are playing right into the hands of the Chinese Communist government. And don't underestimate the ability of the readers of these comments to understand the meaning of revenue enhancements which do not equal tax increases. But you have your own facts as well as your own opinions. But to paraphrase Orwell, some facts ...more
By NTiger (543), Southampton on Aug 4, 11 9:52 PM
You still believe fairness is a communist doctrine? You never did indicate when you served in the armed services? Or agreed to forgo any of the benefits I managed. Yes wait til 2012. if your Tea Party minority tyranny in Congress doesn't destroy us before then.
By NTiger (543), Southampton on Aug 4, 11 9:55 PM
you old enough to remember that advertising campaign entitled ''RIF'' or Reading is Fundemental. I would suggest you go check it out, then after that...there is some cool system called ''Hooked on Phonics''. if I were you, i would be most in favor of whatever candidate indicates that he or she is ''pro education''. and pro abortion, for your kids.
By HSA (68), southampton on Aug 5, 11 6:03 AM
Dow’s losing streak now in ninth day and obama talks about how is having a cookout tonight? LOL you cant make this stuff up ...The man has lost it!
Ive been ding some research and the stock market is poised today to do something it has not done in over 33 years: Decline for nine straight sessions.
Jimmy Carter was president and the country was struggling to come to grips with the last progressive induced period of anemic economic growth.
Isn’t it comforting to know that ...more
By joe hampton (3461), south hampton on Aug 4, 11 9:34 PM
Joe, your hate for Obama is so overpowering that perhaps, in actuality, you harbor some powerful, positive feelings for him which frighten your infantile psyche, so instead you lash out, pretending to hate him. There could be no other reason for the colossally moronic things you say. Come on, Joe, admit it, Cain is just a beard for your true desires. Shhh, don't worry, I won't tell Captn America. Keep on baggin'!
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Aug 4, 11 10:17 PM
1 member liked this comment
The guy who blames all the ills of the world on the Tea Party is calling someone else a hater. Laughable.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 6, 11 11:44 AM
The tea party is a know-nothing group of incurious trolls. Their teeny weeny minds are controlled by corporate overlords who have convinced them to fight against their own best interests. The baggers have single-handedly lowered the US credit rating with their infantile arrogance. But their fat bellies, balding heads and shrunk genitalia make them so lovable. Keep on baggin'
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Aug 6, 11 2:10 PM
By UNITED states CITIZEN (207), SOUTHAMPTON on Aug 8, 11 9:05 AM
I'd rather spend my time time trying to get rich than complaining about the rich. I guess in Razza and Phil world that makes me bad. I'm a bad guy. I want to make a lot of money. I feel awful about that. Lucky for me that if my dreams come true and I do get very successful Raz n Phil will be right there to claim what's theirs.
So tell me what else you guys want. Perhaps I'll invest in some new machinery so I can do more work and hopefully make a little more profit so you guys can tax me and ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 4, 11 10:59 PM
All of this bickering and pointing fingers I'm seeing in this forum is no different than what has been going on in our federal government. Perhaps if we and our government reps can set aside personal feelings and the need to "be right", and just focus on some common sense, all of this animosity would dissapear and this whole mess never would of happened in the first place. Forget who you voted for and what party line you're on. Maybe the existance of "Parties" and everyone insisting on picking ...more
By YesYesBub (58), East Hampton on Aug 4, 11 11:08 PM
2 members liked this comment
''I did not know then that pride is a wonderful, terrible thing, a seed that bears two vines, life and death."

~ James Hurst, "The Scarlet Ibis"
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 4, 11 11:50 PM
NEVER forget who you voted for! Or if they did what you sent them there to do. That is the only way you can send them packing when they sell out. Lead or leave. We don't need a perpetual campaigner and chief.This is Obamas mess, He has out spent GW 3 to 1 in half the time. He has no clue what to do next. He is an idealogical empty suit held hostage by the radical left progressives and the unions that elected him. No more spending! Enough! Brace yourself for todays job numbers.
By They call me (2826), southampton on Aug 5, 11 7:34 AM
You know what I honestly see in the "rich"?

A lot who wants to prosper under a blanket of freedom, but not finance it proper.

18%. What a joke...
Aug 4, 11 11:18 PM appended by Mr. Z
How many of us, who make hundreds of times less per annum, pay more?
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 4, 11 11:18 PM
1 member liked this comment
"We'll take it - all junk - and give me five dollars. You're not buying only junk, but junked lives. And more - you'll see - you're buying bitterness. Buying a plow, to plow your own children under, buying the arms and spirits that might have saved you. Five dollars, not four. I can't haul 'em back - Well, take 'em for four. But, I warn you, you're buying what will plow your children under. And you won't see. You can't see. Take 'em for four."

~ John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 4, 11 11:37 PM
Then reform the tax code. Institute a flat tax coupled with a consumption tax and eliminate most loopholes. All legal Americans pay a flat % and contribute their fair share based on their income. It will never happen because it makes sense. Besides too many people pay no taxes at all. Heck thats most of the dems voting base
By razza5350 (1911), East Hampton on Aug 5, 11 9:03 AM
1 member liked this comment
govt should get spending under control before raising taxes on anyone. All Americans should demand an end to wasteful spending.

By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 5, 11 9:04 AM
Love the flat tax.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 5, 11 9:26 AM
Wasteful spending, earmarks, "pork barrel", all needless, wasteful, and potentially briberous spending must stop.

Truthfully, when it comes to raising taxes, you should not give up a higher percentage of your money, if you make a hundred times less than the citizen in question. The "wealthy" can afford a 40% tax rate, still NOT create jobs, and widen the disparity divide.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 5, 11 12:33 PM
1 member liked this comment
A flat tax is very fair. Everyone pays a fair equal percent. If you make more you pay more and most loopholes are eliminated.
By razza5350 (1911), East Hampton on Aug 5, 11 2:27 PM
Phil has a valid point. I take my wisdom from Teddy Roosevelt:

"No man should receive a dollar unless that dollar has been fairly earned. Every dollar received should represent a dollar's worth of service rendered - not gambling in stocks, but service rendered. The really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size acquires qualities which differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means. Therefore, I believe in a ...more
Aug 5, 11 8:02 PM appended by Mr. Z
If all men (and women), are truly "created equal", then why should a moronic dimwit such as the likes of Paris Hilton, begin life with such a War Chest? The answer is, generational wealth was warned about, by our Founding Fathers. The damage done by it, is worse than the needle...
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 5, 11 8:02 PM
This taking more and more and giving nothing in return needs to end. I didn't say eliminate welfare programs but If everyone contributed their fair share, eliminated tax loopholes and added a consumption tax the world would be a much simpler place.
I'm not sure where z is going with the Paris Hilton thing. Are you saying that if you are wealthy and die all of you assets should be seized by the gvt for the better good of the country
By razza5350 (1911), East Hampton on Aug 7, 11 7:28 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By HSA (68), southampton on Aug 5, 11 6:12 AM
2 members liked this comment
Nuff said
By They call me (2826), southampton on Aug 5, 11 7:23 AM
1 member liked this comment
I guess calling the president a terrorist will get your post removed.

Personally, I'd like to pluck your wretched souls from your bodies, and deposit them in the womb of sweet, hopeful, nice, mother of a migrant worker.

It may change your tune, disposition, and BS rhetoric a bit.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 5, 11 12:30 PM
So we agree. Don't try filling the sinkhole with more sand.
I don't think anyone who is rational would argue against that. I just think that taxation before repair is cart before the horse. There is a liberal thought process articulated by many here that defies logic, ie. don't address spending and tax the rich.
Again Big govt = sinkhole and Taxation = sand.

Not a Republican, Democrat, or Tea Party viewpoint. Just common sense IMO.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 5, 11 1:26 PM
The horse burst the gate thirty years ago.

Now, the mess from the stampede is all that's left...
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 5, 11 7:56 PM
The HSA comment that was removed was one of the most vile, childish and idiotic that has ever been posted here. Those of you who "liked" it need to go out and get a life for yourselves. Those of you who are more "reasonable" conservatives should be ashamed for not speaking out against the post.
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Aug 5, 11 9:57 AM
1 member liked this comment
I think I saw it but didn't read it. It sure must've been good, because it got under your skin. Was it the one where the president came off looking like a terrorist? Weird that 27east took it down, because they printed an entire letter to the editor in this week's press that relates the tea-party to a group of terrorists. Perhaps it was just too off topic.
Aug 5, 11 10:52 AM appended by sparkyibew
you are a fraud progressnow, you had a chance to be a person of intellectual integrity and you failed miserably. to say that you didn't read the paper today and claim ignorance of the subject, renders anything you say on the topic non credible. you are a liar and a fraud.
By sparkyibew (6), southampton on Aug 5, 11 10:52 AM
The posting called an individual posting on these boards a terrorist. If you feel that is funny and OK, then it says a lot about you.
Aug 5, 11 11:05 AM appended by progressnow
Like you, sparky, I too only have two postings a day, unlike you I do not site around waiting for you to respond to my posts, so I know you will see this. I do not receive the paper so I have not read the article you refer to in your attack. My problem with the posting by HSA is that it specifically said "philathome is a terrorist" He is an individual citizen, not a public figure. This is disgusting and wrong and your defense of him is equally disgusting and wrong
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Aug 5, 11 11:05 AM
3 members liked this comment
Sparky, why are you attacking progressnow for my letter to the editor? You know who I am, so why not question me directly about my opinion piece, I am happy to stand behind it, after all, I did sign my real name to it.

Saying you didn't read HSA's posting and "claiming ignorance renders anything you say on the topic non credible. You had a chance to be a person of intellectual integrity and you failed miserable." (sic) Are you a "liar and a fraud" as well?

Unlike HSA's posting ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Aug 5, 11 5:31 PM

Have you read Dostoyevsky?
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 5, 11 7:49 PM
Perhaps, it smacked of SEDITION.

That kind of troublemaking never granted society liberty. Regression, but never liberty.
Aug 5, 11 9:08 PM appended by Mr. Z
Sorry, "Regression, perhaps, but never liberty.".
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 5, 11 9:08 PM
Really!? Whoa, didn't see that. Calling any American citizen a terrorist is pretty bad isn't it Progressnow? In fact the VP calling american citizens terrorists is very bad isn't it Progressnow? You have been officially backed into a corner and now your intellectual integrity will be called into question. Are you consistent. Is it bad for a person to call someone a terrorist or not? Let's see how you work outta this one. I get two comments a day, g'head.
Aug 5, 11 11:11 AM appended by sparkyibew
Progressnow? Are you there? Yooohooooooo Progress? Pnow? Now? huh? was it something I said?
By sparkyibew (6), southampton on Aug 5, 11 11:11 AM
1 member liked this comment
This thread has apparently devolved to grade school level "nyah, nyah, nyahs" and "my father can beat your father" gibberish and sound bites. What could have been a robust discussion of philosophical differences and the strengths and weaknesses of each other’s arguments has settled into a bush league version of the minor league debates being conducted in the House and Senate internally and externally with the White House. It is a shame because there do seem to be people on both sides of the ...more
By NTiger (543), Southampton on Aug 5, 11 1:32 PM
2 members liked this comment
Progress, I did not see the post you mentioned above, but before defending poor little Philathome take a look at some of his happy offerings...

Nobody is as American as the far right wing radicals.
Anybody who posts anything opposing their aganda is un-American.
Hw many times have they questioned the patriotism of people just in this thread?
Just like the Bush-loving radicals they are.
Like Reply Report as inappropriate
By philathome (1551), Southampton on ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 5, 11 1:38 PM
If those statements are your opinions then it's not a question of accuracy. Your opinion is your opinion. The point really is whether you have the capability of engaging in a debate like an adult, or if you want to act like a child. So far your record speaks for itself and the result is you are not taken seriously. Quite frankly, I think you are easy to figure out and I have made a few assumptions on whether or not you view yourself as a financially successful and/or a victim seeking compensation ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 6, 11 11:24 AM
So the entire right is as you describe? Where do the millions of people who don't share your views fit in? Are they radicals and lunatics too?

My voting record in the last election was 60% / 40% Repub / Dem.
I have voted for Dems 6 times in general elections as opposed to 4 times Repubs (as I recall).

I'd bet if we compare voting history yours would be the list that looks considerably more radical.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 7, 11 9:02 AM
The point being you seem to be what you despise... close minded, intolerant, and abusive towards those who disagree with you.
What's the sense in debate when you already have your boots cemented in one place? It actually has happened that I have changed my position based on info or a point of view I didn't consider. You? Doubt it.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 7, 11 9:16 AM
Having the VP call Americans terrorists because they are in favor of smaller govt., a balanced budget and personal responsibility is pitiful. For Barry Obama not to chastise him publicly is disgusting! His silence proves He agrees. What an arrogant pizz poor excuse for a human being. He still hasn't called the Jihadsts terrorists but He calls us terrorists, He just lost more credibility, not that he had any to spare.
Too bad HSA's post was removed, it was factual and accurate.
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Aug 5, 11 3:20 PM
1 member liked this comment
bf, not to be confused with BS, I'd like to pluck your soul, and deposit it in the womb of a Soviet Georgian mother.

Let's see how you fare being born that way.
Aug 5, 11 7:51 PM appended by Mr. Z
You are simply another "man", of many in this day and age, who FAILS MISERABLY at seeing beyond the bias of your own birth, and existence. Frankly, you make me ill.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 5, 11 7:51 PM
Frankly, the more "men" like you that exist, the less chance we have of becoming part of a society BEYOND this rock that birthed "Humanity".

By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 5, 11 8:23 PM
What closed minded hypocrisy its ignorant for HSA but not for the Vice President. Absolutely amazing...Sparky said,In fact the VP calling American citizens terrorists is very bad isn't it Progressnow? You have been officially backed into a corner and now your intellectual integrity will be called into question. Are you consistent. Is it bad for a person to call someone a terrorist or not? Let's see how you work outta this one. And the silence has been deafening
By joe hampton (3461), south hampton on Aug 5, 11 11:56 PM
I completely agree with philathome on this. He is absolutely correct. To call other people out as terrorists is hateful. Terrorists beheaded a father/husband named Daniel Pearl. Terrorists are responsible for the most horrific attacks on innocent people whereby folks are strapped with bombs filled with nails, so I understand, and walk into weddings and night clubs to cause maximum destruction. So if philathome feels its hateful and ignorant when some anonymous extreme type on a local site like ...more
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Aug 5, 11 5:32 PM
From a piece by William Yeoman's in Politico:

"As we stumble closer to Aug. 2, it has become clear that many in the tea party are willing to inflict massive harm on the American people to obtain their political objective of a severely shrunken federal government. Their persistence in rejecting compromise, even as the economic effects of the phony crisis they have created mount, has taken their radicalism beyond tough negotiating, beyond even hostage-taking.

As markets fall in anticipation ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Aug 5, 11 5:50 PM
3 members liked this comment
It is now being reported that Standard and Poor's one of the world's bond rating agency is expected to downgrade the US debt. The report states in part:
"Officials reasons given will be the political confusion surrounding the process of raising the debt ceiling, and lack of confidence that the political system will be able to agree to more deficit reduction. A SOURCE SAYS REPUBLICANS SAYING THAT THEY REFUSE TO ACCEPT ANY TAX INCREASES AS PART OF A LARGER DEAL WILL BE PART OF THE REASON CITED".
How ...more
By NTiger (543), Southampton on Aug 5, 11 6:16 PM
1 member liked this comment
There are still enough moderate Republicans left in Washington (including those who have now retired, but remain active) that if they take back control of their party, they can change the tide. I am thinking specifically of guys like Tom Coburn (who is now being labeled a "Tea Party Turncoat" and Alan Simpson who (though I disagree with him on 95% of everything else) recently called out Grover Norquist and extreme right obstructionism. Even John McCain, for a short while, came out against those ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Aug 5, 11 6:48 PM
Read our tea leafs NO NEW TAXES!
Aug 6, 11 11:58 PM appended by joe hampton
AND THAT IS NON NEGOTIABLE ! A Vote to raise taxes and we vote you OUT in 2012. Were right your wrong end of story
By joe hampton (3461), south hampton on Aug 5, 11 11:58 PM
"Every day I turn on the news, to find we have so far to go."

~ Styx, "Show me the way", Edge of the Century (1990)
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 5, 11 8:17 PM
Here I am
Will you send me an angel.
Here I am
In the land of the Morning Star.

~ Scorpions, Send Me an Angel (1989)

We know who the "Morning Star" is, don't we? No, we don't. We've called "both sides" that. Even His mother bore that name.

One less thing "We" actually understand, but presume to.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 5, 11 8:37 PM
"You you need to seek help immediately."

By razza5350 (1911), East Hampton on Aug 6, 11 7:06 AM
Well, only if you say so. My mind has been referred to as "eclectic" since I was very young.

Get used to it, and get over it.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 6, 11 3:18 PM
S & P just lowered the US credit rating not because we can't pay our debt, but because the freaking tea party held the country hostage to avoid revenue increases! That's right, you tea bagging ditto heads, they blamed YOU! Keep on baggin', you freaking morons!
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Aug 5, 11 8:42 PM
You mean, Standard and Poor know what "working capital" is?

Aug 5, 11 8:43 PM appended by Mr. Z
The less you run a government like a bonafide business, well...
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 5, 11 8:43 PM
God bless the TEA Party for bringing the issue of our ballooning defecit to the forefront. If not for these brave souls it would be business as usual in DC. Thank our Dear Leader for the downgrade in our credit rating. Due to His lack of leadership and anti-business attitude, our great nation has become economically unstable.
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Aug 6, 11 6:39 AM
The Repubs must put up a viable contender for 2012. If not it will 4 more years of Obama. I'm not at all excited or confident about the current offerings. That said, the Obama admin has to go.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 6, 11 11:29 AM
You think THAT"S why the economy is unstable?

WOW. You took the train instead, didn't you?
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 7, 11 3:29 PM
Amen Big freash Amen.
By 27dan (2854), Southampton on Aug 6, 11 6:43 AM
Shared sacrifice is where its at, let's go with that. Either the 50% that pays no taxes start coughing up their fair share or THEY get off the highways and stop calling the fire department.
By HSA (68), southampton on Aug 6, 11 7:32 AM
The real failure was letting a bunch of greedy bankers run our government.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 6, 11 3:20 PM
Z just because you say something 2083 times dose not make it true. Why do you consistently point no blame at Dodd/Frank instituting clintonian Red lining policy.If we where not engaged in social engineering this housing crises would not exist.and yes the rich would still live in McMansions and you would still be living with your folks. So what. We don't care. and we are done pretending you are making us feel quilt. So you and stillathome find a way to make it in the big world like the rest of us. ...more
By joe hampton (3461), south hampton on Aug 6, 11 7:29 PM
1 member liked this comment
You are on a high speed train, all right, the only problem for you is that it has no breaks and the bridge ahead is out.
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Aug 7, 11 12:11 AM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 7, 11 12:32 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 7, 11 12:44 AM
FYI, YEAH, you finally stepped on the last nerve I had left for you.
Aug 7, 11 12:50 AM appended by Mr. Z
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 7, 11 12:50 AM
Z. He's right. The gvt adopted a policy that EVERY American should have the right to buy into the American dream and own a home whether they could afford it or not. The American gvt created the environment through the expansion of Freddie Mae and Mac. This created the perfect environment for greedy bankers. the GVT regulatory agencies did nothing to stop it.
By razza5350 (1911), East Hampton on Aug 7, 11 7:21 AM
Why was the existence of that policy even required?

Once again, you fail to dig out the roots of the weeds. The reason people couldn't afford "The American Dream", was/is due to the greed of a few that raised the bar for everyone else with their "fortune". The disparity created by the "wealty elite", was because the reins were taken off the horse, and then the wagon wrecked fantastically

What you apparently don't get, is that those bankers RAN our government, and held highly ...more
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 7, 11 1:18 PM
Standard and Poors:

"The majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act"

"the political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we se as America's governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we prreviously believed"

Draw whatever conclusions you wish from Standard and Poors actions and reasoning.

So ...more
By NTiger (543), Southampton on Aug 6, 11 8:48 PM
2 members liked this comment
NTiger listen, You started off on this site trying to convince us you were some sort of bi partisan deep thinker . It has become apparent over the last few weeks you are an agent of a progressive view point. S&P also seems to be trying to drive an ideological lesson of sorts. Reality is the spending must stop. Cuts must take place, Government expansion must stop. Cozy relationships with unions must stop. And most important is what Joe just eluded to if we raise taxes It must be on everyone. You ...more
By Undocumented Democrat (2065), southampton on Aug 6, 11 10:12 PM
"Business" doesnt' want "Government's" involovement?

Then REMOVE "Business" from our "Government".

If you actually can, at this point...
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 7, 11 12:36 AM
In the same post that this silly Ntiger lectures everyone on using sound bites, these are just a few of his, well, sound bites doesn't know whether he's coming or going but you'll get the hang of it:

A nation divided cannot stand

We, each of us, regardless of philosophical bent, owe that much to our nation and to each other

Please let the voices of sanity on both sides prevail over insanity and lack of decorum

Let us all hang together or surely we shall all hang ...more
By HSA (68), southampton on Aug 7, 11 6:13 AM
Yea....I guess that means the military as well?
By SHNative (554), Southampton on Aug 6, 11 11:28 PM
1 member liked this comment
"It's called 'The American Dream'. Because, you have to be asleep to believe it."

~ George Carlin, "Life is Worth Losing"
Aug 7, 11 1:15 AM appended by Mr. Z
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 7, 11 1:15 AM
Mr. Z, how did you drive points home before the internet, did you walk around with lots and lots of micrcofiche'd articles from various publications that contained opinions of people that seemed to jive with yours? What is with all of you lefties pulling opinions from people that we care less about than you? My stuff is not cut and pasted and causes so much upheaval that folks are calling for folks to get banned! Now that's poignant. You can do it, don't underestimate your ability to coalesce ...more
By HSA (68), southampton on Aug 7, 11 6:17 AM
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So, you have a problem with backing up lucid thought, with the opinion of people who have come before you?

You have a problem with referencing, and sharing information with everyone?

These are people who have indentified the mistakes that have been made again, and spoke about it to millions with their "act", statesmanship, and intellect. Maybe if you spent a little time on History, you'd see how the same mistakes have been made more than once, because people like you only hear, ...more
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 7, 11 1:10 PM
As for your query:

I read ALOT. I watched PBS alot. I went to see cultural, and societal documentaries. I paid attention in class in school.

I find the "net", an invaluable reference library, and alot easier to carry around than the entire reference section of the library. Be it the one in high school, or the Carnegie library I went to while I was attending my post-secondary education. Ask any one of my friends just how much "useless info" is in my head. You have no idea...
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 7, 11 1:27 PM
to HSA:

This is the second time that you have argued that your anecdotal opinions are more valid than assertions referenced to authority. That's ridiculous. Were it so, academic publications would cease requiring footnoting, indexing, bibliographies and appendices. Not only does a reader want to know if recognized figures share the opinion of the anonymous poster in order to gauge the gravitas of his assertion but referencing provides opportunity for further research and makes the post ...more
By highhatsize (4217), East Quogue on Aug 7, 11 11:24 AM
Excellent conclusion.

Figured that out quite some time ago when I noticed the comments deleted, did not reflect on the appendments. How's that for critical thinking?

I'm sure they will figure how to re-code the software that runs the board via Cold Fusion eventually, now that "the cat is out of the bag"...
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 7, 11 3:17 PM
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to Mr. Z:

Oops! My bad. Sorry.
By highhatsize (4217), East Quogue on Aug 7, 11 4:19 PM
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See hat you did not give phil his credit he knew it to. Thanks Phil
By They call me (2826), southampton on Aug 7, 11 11:46 PM

For what?
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 8, 11 6:11 AM
By the way, if you watch that Carlin interview, his shows were about warning, they were just funny somehow, because HE WAS SERIOUS about everything he said.

He meant every word, in "Life is Worth Losing".
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 8, 11 10:02 PM
You know, if you weren't so silly, your note would be very hurtful to me. Despite what you think, I'm very sensitive. Now, this is the second time you have alluded to someone's "gravitas of his assertion" and that's cute, but don't you dare suggest that some of the dolts you and your pals are quoting from are smarter, more intuitive, more ''in touch'', better educated or better spoken then HSA. Perhaps you have issues, but you would have a tough time convincing me that some left wing blow hard ...more
By HSA (68), southampton on Aug 9, 11 6:12 AM
The teaparty has pushed the republican party so far right as to make most of their candidates unpalatable to the average American. "A CBS News/New York Times poll this week shows that only 20 percent of Americans and 41 percent of Republicans have a favorable view of the tea party, down from 26 percent and 59 percent, respectively, in April. Just 18 percent of Americans now view themselves as tea party supporters, compared with 31 percent who did immediately after the November 2010 elections."
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Aug 7, 11 2:07 PM
1 member liked this comment
Progress If you are referring to yourself as a average American I am going to fall off my chair. And Z why so angry... I was simply stating fact. You have to do for yourself not depend on government to do it for you. It has created a cycle of dependency that enslaves people. A while back did I not offer you a substantial loan to get your house. I said if 10 others on this board would kick in a few thousand I would lend you 5k.I told you it was a real offer. And you say I stepped on your last nerve?? ...more
By joe hampton (3461), south hampton on Aug 7, 11 7:33 PM
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This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Aug 7, 11 7:58 PM
This coming from a woman with her head up there. nice sobriquet avatar Progress lol, Keep on truckin Joe
By 27dan (2854), Southampton on Aug 7, 11 11:52 PM
You can't spend your way, out of debt.

I'm tired of watching people "fiddle while Rome burns". Whether you choose to accept it, or not, we need a social safety net in this world. Bad, and sometimes even horrible, or horrific things happen to perfectly good, hard working people in this world. Harm, through no genuine fault of their own. People just like you, and me.

I don't see a "cycle of dependency". I see a cycle of advantageous abuse.

There's a few parts of why ...more
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 8, 11 6:18 AM
Tea this, tea that. A minority party now pushes around the Dem majority senate and a Dem president of the USA? Where was Mr. Obama's plan? Would Clinton have allowed a nuisance like the tea party to flatten his tires? Where is the leadership? Show us some please Mr. President. Either that or go away.

You guys incessantly screaming about the tea party never question why they could push your party around? If the president had any boots at all he would have stepped on them long ago. Where ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 7, 11 10:12 PM
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Two reasons:

Geithner, and Summers. Disciples of Greenspan.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 8, 11 10:00 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By local 84 (353), riverhead on Aug 8, 11 12:04 AM
You still go yo hand out Local 84? Still empty ain't it. hahahaha. I love that poll, same numbers, different perspective. The Tea Party at not yet 3 years old is now as big as the democratic party, some 250 odd years old. Stick with CBS though, they gave you Dan Rather.The percentage of Americans who expressly state that they are supporters of the Tea Party movement is currently about as large at 22 percent of the population as the 21 percent who say they are liberals, according to recent but ...more
Aug 8, 11 6:39 AM appended by HSA
You know what they say, you only catch flak fire when you are over your target! If my posts aren't causing a visceral reaction, they ain't workin'!
By HSA (68), southampton on Aug 8, 11 6:39 AM
B. Obama to D Sawyer
"I can guarantee that the worst thing we could do would be to raise taxes when the economy is still this weak"

So here we are in a weak economy and the Dems #1 target for a fix is... Taxation.

B. Obama to D. Sawyer
"I'd rather be a really good one-term president than a mediocre two-term president"

That would be nice, but I don't see really good or mediocre as a reachable goal for Mr. Obama. It's really a results based business that he's in ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Aug 8, 11 10:16 AM
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Seems like we never recognize, or give them proper credit when they do.

Brooksley Borne, and Sheila Bair are two PRIME recent examples.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 8, 11 10:21 PM
S and P....only in America. Heres an american based rating company that has enjoyed some serious press due to its downgrade of America's debt. A company that helped contribute to the fiscal crisis of 2008 by its own incompetence. Other that the obvious AAA ratings on mortgage backed securities how many "other stocks" were rated AAA by them before filing bankruptcy within a year. I for one would question THEIR competence. Obama needs to take some leadership for once in his presidency and schedule ...more
By razza5350 (1911), East Hampton on Aug 8, 11 10:55 AM
2 members liked this comment
You got that right Real Razza... And MR Z, I did not mean to anger you, Just stating facts. You cannot look to government to save you. I put my hard earned $ on the line to help you... and to the best of my knowledge only Reality First was a friend enough to step up to the plate with me. How about it Phil, Hat, Progress/51,Dog D,Summertime,Ntiger, And the rest, cant we help Z out with $1000 each . I am dead seirious...Even local 84 could kick in his can collection money. Assistance should be on ...more
Aug 8, 11 12:32 PM appended by joe hampton
Sorry typing from bb (serious)
By joe hampton (3461), south hampton on Aug 8, 11 12:32 PM
You can't borrow your way out of debt, either.

Thanks all the same, joe.

It's fortunate you are in a postion to take more from society for your services, though...
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 8, 11 8:40 PM
Joe I think you just got Mr Z to say on the recored.
You can't borrow your way out of debt
Nicely done . Glad your coming around Mr Z
By Undocumented Democrat (2065), southampton on Aug 8, 11 9:17 PM
"Coming around"?

Obviously, you've never read my posts about Newt Gingrich.

Do you know what "new loans" are? They paid back alot of the bailout money, with "faux cash". Believe it, or not.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 8, 11 9:21 PM
Joe , Why the fund raiser ? Wasn't it Mr. Z who just a few days ago said to tuckahoeptomember
"don't mean to burst your bubble, but the world has troubles worse than you"
Aug 8, 11 1:08 PM appended by 27dan
That said, If Z can raise a 25,000 down payment from the folks on this board in the next month I will kick in 500 so he can by the house he has his eye on. provided he at least says thank you.
By 27dan (2854), Southampton on Aug 8, 11 1:08 PM
This just in Obama spoke to the nation at 1 o'clock. I had the luxury of watching it at work on my computer. Most people didnt see it because they were actually out working. They didn't miss anything As usual he offered no solutions and as he babbled on the stock market continued to drop. I dont think this is the hope in change that America was looking for.
By razza5350 (1911), East Hampton on Aug 8, 11 2:11 PM
He actually did same something, he said ''Screw the S&P, we are AAA". And, he is actually correct, we can always print more money and always have done so. The thing is, the financial markets are probably not going to react well to that message given the fear and fact that people are looking for reassurance and a little stroking right about now.
Aug 8, 11 2:19 PM appended by kaluss
today's drop in the market was the 6th largest in history. Incredible.
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Aug 8, 11 2:19 PM
I also said, you can't spend your way out of debt.

You can't borrow your way out of it, either.

Thanks for the offers, though...
Aug 8, 11 8:37 PM appended by Mr. Z
And, for reference, I was close to the "Golden Ring", before disability, physical injury, and the economic implosion coincided to take away everything I worked ten years for.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 8, 11 8:37 PM
Has the FAA been reinstated? If you have purchased plane tickets that were used during the time the FAA has been ''in limbo'' you are entitled to a refund of the taxes you paid that are associated with the FAA.
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Aug 8, 11 2:07 PM
It is oficially Obama's economy. Thanks Barry, you are easily the worst president in modern history! You can't blame the TEA party freshman for the mess we're in, they didn't get to DC until this past January, the blame lies squarely in the lap of our glorious POTUS.
By bigfresh (4666), north sea on Aug 8, 11 7:31 PM
If you haven't read the New York Times magazine interview with Shiela Bair, former head of the FDIC, you should.

Maybe you'd spew less BS.
Aug 8, 11 8:36 PM appended by Mr. Z
Maybe you should also read the Frontline documentary regarding Brooksley Borne. She threw up warning bells about the derivatives market being unregulated in the mid nineties. But, your so [expeletive deleted] educated, and smart, you don't need to do either, do you?
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 8, 11 8:36 PM
P.S. It's called "Frontline: The Warining".

It would do you a world of good to watch it. My bad, I'm so obsessed with reading, and listening, I almost told you to read a documentary.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 8, 11 9:24 PM
Told hat head I would keep you all informed on this story's developments and today we have a big one.
Court tells Hawaii officials to explain Obama's birth records
'Show cause' hearing will determine why subpoena rejected
posted: August 08, 2011
9:02 pm Eastern
California attorney Orly Taitz today secured an order from United States District Court Magistrate Judge Richard L. Puglisi demanding representatives of the Hawaii Department of Health appear in federal court Sept. 14 ...more
Aug 9, 11 3:35 AM appended by 27dan
By 27dan (2854), Southampton on Aug 9, 11 3:35 AM
I just tried it had no trouble, Must be safari
By They call me (2826), southampton on Aug 9, 11 9:08 PM
For every study, quote, article, news clipping, quote, song lyric or whatever text he can find on a cereal box, I can find the exact opposite. According to the head of English LIterature at NYU with whom I spoke yesterday, she thinks its the lowest form of communication to be utlized by human beings to date. An anonymous person pulls a quote from somewhere and puts it online as though it is applicable, pertinent and poignant. It is none of the above. It is weak and feeble minded. Look around, ...more
Aug 9, 11 6:05 AM appended by HSA
New York Magazine? Are you serious? They have a term for folks that spend all day cutting and pasting articles from the internet and then putting them online as though it were credible and then taking credit for using someone else's complete thoughts as their own, with no additional narrative or anything, but it would be against 27east policy to use it.
By HSA (68), southampton on Aug 9, 11 6:05 AM
I've got something applicable for you.

Give the July 11, 2011 issue of New York magazine a read. Maybe Obama hasn't helped a whole lot, but he didn't destroy our economy.

How 'bout that Freddie Mac?
Aug 9, 11 6:09 AM appended by Mr. Z
They have a term for people who refuse to believe when they've been hoodwinked. It's called "Believer's Syndrome". Dow drops to 10,000. To paraphrase Matt Taibbi "Welcome to the reload."
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 9, 11 6:09 AM
to HSA:

More ankle-biting and lowbrow irrationality. If you CAN refute posted citations with contrary citations, DO. Hearsay doesn't count. (Ask the NYU prof about a course in rhetoric.)

By highhatsize (4217), East Quogue on Aug 9, 11 2:26 PM
2 members liked this comment
You want a lttle more insight?

Watch the interview Matt Taibbi sat for, with Keith Olbermann on "Countdown".

You'll get a more concise picture of how the "elite" create jobs...
Aug 9, 11 6:23 PM appended by Mr. Z
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 9, 11 6:23 PM
P.S. LOVE the appendment. HOWEVER, feeling the same way because of your life experience, and agreeing with someone who has far more clout than you, doesn't make me "something that shall not be named".

However, it does make you a bit short sighted.

What was/is your highest level of education, anyway? You write with the compositional tenacity of a third grader.
Aug 9, 11 7:01 PM appended by Mr. Z
P.S. For reference, I'm too busy at work about 11 hours, or more a day to "cut and paste all day". That also leaves me little time to do the investigative research, and writing journalists, and contributing editors like Nocera, and Taibbi do, respectively. I laud them for their efforts, enjoy "turning people on" to them. Have a nice day...
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 9, 11 7:01 PM
27dan, bigfresh, HSA, joe hampton, Undocumented Democrat, one of you razzas, this Pizzigati article might make your head spin.

Read it carefully, and thoroughly. Just a humble request.
Aug 9, 11 8:33 PM appended by Mr. Z
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 9, 11 8:33 PM
Oh, and you'll love the bar graph here:
Aug 9, 11 8:42 PM appended by Mr. Z
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 9, 11 8:42 PM
Mr Z., try doing some research on the sources you quote. Do you think it would be credible if someone wrote a quote about how important it is for all Americans to drink orange juice, and then you found out the source of that quote was someone who owned an orange juice company? It would probably reduce the impact of that warning about drinking orange juice right Too much Online and all that is run by a very one sided operation trusteed by all of these folks, so, it probably won't make anyone's ...more
Aug 10, 11 6:17 AM appended by kaluss
My append here is not to be rude like some of the others on here, but to say that I mean this is the most respectful way - doesn't matter what team you are on. just feel the source matters.
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Aug 10, 11 6:17 AM
Well, see below for my point of view on disparity. Just because you believe the people you list "liberal", or left wing, does not discredit the work of the people who provide information to the site.

It does not discredit the academic degrees, and education of epidemiologists who study our culture, and it's current dischord. Harry Belafonte has most likely done more to help Humantiy, that you could in 10 lifetimes. You can't hold a candle to him.

I may get to the others later...
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 10, 11 6:28 PM
Matt Taibbi write cool articles and I love his one about Goldman Sachs.

In March 2001, as editor of the magazine The eXile, Matt Taibbi burst into the office of New York Times Moscow bureau chief Michael Wines and threw a cream pie into his face, after Taibbi's magazine had awarded Wines the title of "worst journalist" in Russia.[14]

In March 2005 Taibbi's satirical essay, "The 52 Funniest Things About the Upcoming Death of the Pope", published in the New York Press was denounced ...more
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Aug 10, 11 6:24 AM
Kaluss. I don't know why you even bother. You can't have a debate with the man who knows it all. Do you really think anything you say will change Z's opinion. He is a genius.
By razza5350 (1911), East Hampton on Aug 10, 11 6:49 AM
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I don't know about genius, fell just short of being in the "gifted" program many moons ago.

One thing I do know, is that I respect the work of more than a few epidemiologists, and they mostly say the same thing. The reason for the dischord and political inaction in the present United States, is "income inequality". You can also call it disparity, or even "de pecuniae" segregation. The latter is a term I coined many years ago. When 6/10 of one percent of your population takes home 13.9% ...more
Aug 10, 11 6:20 PM appended by Mr. Z
And for reference, we now have the WORST level of economic disparity since the first decade of the 20th century. ALL HAIL PROGRESS!!!
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 10, 11 6:20 PM
@ Kaluss:

I enjoy Taibbi's work very much. That time spent in the former Soviet Union is something most people have never had the pleasure of. It's a very sobering experience to travel to another country, and see the worst it can offer firsthand. Makes you appreciate how lucky you are not to live in a country, where you could disappear for discourse such as we engage in here. I don't think this is about "teams", or "sides", it's about crunching raw numbers, as well as soaking up, and ...more
Aug 10, 11 7:41 PM appended by Mr. Z
For the record, I do have a deep respect for the "Animal House" kind of irreverence. It's simply refreshing in a country founded by a group of people so stilted, the English kicked them out of theirs.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 10, 11 7:41 PM
2 members liked this comment
BTW, do you enjoy Henry Rollins?
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 10, 11 8:19 PM
1 member liked this comment
Americans want the government to spend less and for the rich to be taxed more. I don't understand why some Americans can't see that the Dems have a vision for the future and the Republicans want this country to revert back to 1890. Congress is made up of a bunch of lawyers and this is the biggest problem our country faces. These people aren't visionaries, they're arguers. The best ideas are not winning, the best arguers are. We need a Congress comprised of scientists, educators, businesspeople, ...more
By BaymenNYC (59), Manhattan on Aug 10, 11 1:53 PM
3 members liked this comment
I can't begin to express how much I agree with that statement.

Imagine if Congress was not only comprised of those people, but we put the lobbyists out like Jesus, and the tax collectors in the temple.

"We" might actually accomplish something positive...
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 10, 11 7:47 PM
Last night's Iowa straw poll debate was a warning to all Americans. When asked would they have supported a deficit plan that included 10x more cuts than tax or revenue increases every single candidate said no.

The republican party, the very same party that gave us these deficits with tax breaks to the rich and corporations that ship jobs overseas, two unfunded wars, an unfunded medicare give away to pharmaceutical companies, and billions of dollars in subsidies to oil companies - the ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Aug 12, 11 1:18 PM
A trick question? Sorry, captn, it was a legitimate question asked by a teaparty friendly network host. A deficit reduction plan that had TEN TIMES more cuts than revenue, and they still insisted they would hold the country hostage to protect billionaires, corporations and special interests.

Why is it that whenever a candidate on the right is asked a serious question and then answers it honestly, the conservative base cries "Gotcha question!"? Instead of attacking the question, why not ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Aug 12, 11 1:44 PM
1 member liked this comment
I disagree captain. I think it was a mistake and the politically correct answer was to raise your hand. Remember "read my lips no new taxes". Of course ALL politicans flip flop and I'm sure they would change their position if presented with a good deal but it would have been refreshing to see someone not raise there hands. I frimly believe that at this time we should not raise any taxes that will effect the growth of the economy and job market. If the dems offered a deal 10 to 1 where the repubs ...more
By razza5350 (1911), East Hampton on Aug 12, 11 2:59 PM
1 member liked this comment
Razza, your honesty is pretty damned refreshing and I wish your party's candidates would take your advice.
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Aug 12, 11 3:28 PM
Dag. I think you are not getting the big picture. BOTH parties are guilty of this. The two party system is very divisive and ineffective. You should look in the mirror before throwing stones.
By razza5350 (1911), East Hampton on Aug 13, 11 6:23 AM
Capt. Don't get me wrong I agree with you especially in regards to obama. He has flip flopped many times and failed to keep campaign promises. I was merely trying to point out that it would have been refreshing to see one of the candidates step forward and break the party line mantra. I think if the repubs got a balanced budget amendment, spending cuts and entitlement reform and have to give back on some tax increases that would have little or no effect on the economy on a 10 to 1 basis no republican ...more
By razza5350 (1911), East Hampton on Aug 13, 11 8:40 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Mr. Z (11847), North Sea on Aug 13, 11 9:52 PM